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Noesi and Montero
1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 11:22PM #1
fatgiambi
Posts: 1,110
Noesi - 8 innings, 0 runs, 6 ks, 1bb. 
montero - hr, 2b, 3 rbis, hitting .323. 

i beg of you pineda, please pan out! 
1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 12:05AM #2
ninja108
Posts: 3,644

 I will say this...I miss Montero's bat. I have no doubt that if he had stayed,some of the runners we've seen stranded over the past few games would have been brought home. Perhaps in a couple of those games in Tampa,especially the first,it would have been a blowout. Perhaps there wouldn't have been extra innings in Baltimore. I also have no doubt he will stick it to us when he comes back.


 But at the of the day,while we do need a bat in the lineup,the old adage pitching wins championships still applies nine times out of ten. Look at the Texas Rangers. They were able to slug their way to the World Series only to fall flat the last two times. Why would that be? Because in 2010 they got shut down by a team that has little offense but a solid pitching staff. And last year,while Feliz blowing the save cost the Rangers the title in the end,the fact remains that the Rangers pitching staff allowed the Cardinals to play catch up that entire game 6.


 And the Yankee Dynasty. We didn't just have the offense,we had pitchers who could keep us in the game long enough for the offense to break through.


 I don't know how the trade will work out but at the end of the day,we needed pitching more than we needed a bat.

1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 12:22AM #3
hampfan
Posts: 904

Apr 15, 2012 -- 12:05AM, ninja108 wrote:


 I will say this...I miss Montero's bat. I have no doubt that if he had stayed,some of the runners we've seen stranded over the past few games would have been brought home. Perhaps in a couple of those games in Tampa,especially the first,it would have been a blowout. Perhaps there wouldn't have been extra innings in Baltimore. I also have no doubt he will stick it to us when he comes back.


 But at the of the day,while we do need a bat in the lineup,the old adage pitching wins championships still applies nine times out of ten. Look at the Texas Rangers.




We always need both, not just the one, and to hell with the adage. I love Montero's bat and hope he does very well in his career, as a catcher as well as a DH (a full-time position in modern baseball). We should've have kept him, imo--and probably Noesi, too, who right now looks to be better than Hughes. Sorry I disagree on this matter with most people on this board.

1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 5:39AM #4
ninja108
Posts: 3,644

I will freely admit that if the trade had been made,it should have been for an established pitcher. But I knew that Montero's time as a Yankee was going to be short. His name had come up too often for it not to be.


Btw,last week Noesi managed to blow a five run lead and Montero was hitting .200 ANd if people don't like the pitching adage,too bad. It's been proven time and time again.

1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 8:43AM #5
qwik3457bb
Posts: 5,744

Montero is going to be a big time hitter guys. It might not be this year, but it's going to happen.


The Yankees' side of the deal was always riskier. If Pineda becomes the pitcher his talent projects, things will work out fine.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 9:01AM #6
hampfan
Posts: 904

Apr 15, 2012 -- 8:43AM, qwik3457bb wrote:


Montero is going to be a big time hitter guys. It might not be this year, but it's going to happen.


The Yankees' side of the deal was always riskier. If Pineda becomes the pitcher his talent projects, things will work out fine.




I hope you're right. Even so, I still would have preferred watching our games with a youngish, dangerous hitting Montero in our oldish offensive lineup (who're batting in the .200s the way Montero was last week, ahem) than watching Pineda winning, what, fifteen games or so for us for the next five or so years--unless you think he's a Beckett type and can endure the travails of throwing hard (if he can).


As for Ninja's remark, yes, the FO had Montero aimed for a trade from the get-go, which was a dirty rotten shame besides stupid, imo. It's time for the Michaels and Connors to retire--their era has passed--supposing it wasn't Cashman's decision alone. As for Noesi, I think he can win HIS fifteen games for Seattle. Unlike Hughes so far, Noesi's showed HE can bounce back.


Maybe, from now on, we'll hold on to our good, young offensive players in the minors, and forget about the DH--should that be their best bet to make the major league team--as a slot to rest old men.

1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 9:01AM #7
ninja108
Posts: 3,644

Apr 15, 2012 -- 8:43AM, qwik3457bb wrote:


Montero is going to be a big time hitter guys. It might not be this year, but it's going to happen.


The Yankees' side of the deal was always riskier. If Pineda becomes the pitcher his talent projects, things will work out fine.




 Indeed he will be Qwik,and the trade may very well be a bust. But at the end of the day, a person who can throw the ball really well is far better than one who can mash it.

1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 9:22AM #8
qwik3457bb
Posts: 5,744

Apr 15, 2012 -- 9:01AM, hampfan wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 8:43AM, qwik3457bb wrote:


Montero is going to be a big time hitter guys. It might not be this year, but it's going to happen.


The Yankees' side of the deal was always riskier. If Pineda becomes the pitcher his talent projects, things will work out fine.




I hope you're right. Even so, I still would have preferred watching our games with a youngish, dangerous hitting Montero in our oldish offensive lineup (who're batting in the .200s the way Montero was last week, ahem) than watching Pineda winning, what, fifteen games or so for us for the next five or so years--unless you think he's a Beckett type and can endure the travails of throwing hard (if he can).


As for Ninja's remark, yes, the FO had Montero aimed for a trade from the get-go, which was a dirty rotten shame besides stupid, imo. It's time for the Michaels and Connors to retire--their era has passed--supposing it wasn't Cashman's decision alone. As for Noesi, I think he can win HIS fifteen games for Seattle. Unlike Hughes so far, Noesi's showed HE can bounce back.


Maybe, from now on, we'll hold on to our good, young offensive players in the minors, and forget about the DH--should that be their best bet to make the major league team--as a slot to rest old men.




Normally, I would agree that you never, ever trade a young hitter of Montero's talent, especially for young pitching.


But the Yanks were in a bad tactical situation because of one judgment they made: they decided (probably Girardi) that Montero's defense was so poor that he couldn't catch for them. Girardi was a defense, game-calling, receiving first catcher himself, and he was looking to get Posada out from behind the plate from the moment he was hired as manager. Right or wrong, he wasn't about to turn this pitching staff, and the young farm pitchers, over to Montero. 


Now, once you make that call, what are the options? He doesn't have the athleticism to play the outfield. Tex' contract ties up 1st base for this year, and four more beyond. You're gonna need DH for A-Rod in 2 years or so, and you need it to get days off for your regulars right now.


So what do you do? You trade him, hoping to wait for the right deal. Was Pineda the right deal? It sure looked like it it could be. But he didn't do anything this winter (Mariners' instructions to him), came to camp out of shape, hadn't thrown, got into some bad habits trying to jack up the fastball in the spring, and ended up hurting himself (fortunately, not too seriously).


If Pineda busts completely, the Yanks will take one of the worst beatings in a trade, ever, even if Campos comes through. If he recovers as he's supposed to, straightens out the mechanical flaws, develops his change, and stays healthy, things will work out just fine. As I usually say, let's wait and see. 


Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 9:23AM #9
61in61
Posts: 12,297

Apr 15, 2012 -- 8:43AM, qwik3457bb wrote:


Montero is going to be a big time hitter guys. It might not be this year, but it's going to happen.


The Yankees' side of the deal was always riskier. If Pineda becomes the pitcher his talent projects, things will work out fine.




Don't forget Campos.

1 year ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 9:52AM #10
ninja108
Posts: 3,644

Girardi isn't the only one to favor defense over offense. Mike Napoli whom most certainly would have been the World Series MVP if the Rangers had won,was basically given his ticket out of town by Mike Scioscia,whom also favors favors defense over offense.

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