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Vazquez and now Pineda

1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:02PM #11
qwik3457bb Posts: 5,744	Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:45PM, Hustleorbench wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:40PM, qwik3457bb wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:37PM, Hustleorbench wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:36PM, yikes wrote: pineda is hurt no one could have predicted that.....however i give you vasquez....he stinks Before he was traded, theres been a speculation he was in bad shape. No, there wasn't. Not really. Whatever it is, there's a chance he will never become a power pitcher after the torn labrum surgery. Cashman is in deep s**. It's 2 strikes already with him (Vazquez and now Pineda). The Vazquez deal is something entirely different for several reasons: 1) Vazquez suffered an unexpected dropoff in velocity with the Yanks, but somehow recovered enough to be one of the best pitchers in the NL the 2nd half of last season 2) The Yanks gave up Arodys Vicaino, a very talented pitching prospect who himself just had Tommy John Surgery and is out until next season 3) The still have Boone Logan, and he's been a fairly good lefty out of the pen for them 4) The Yanks got a draft pick from the Marlins signing Vazquez that turned out to be Dante Bichette, Jr., who looks like a pretty good prospect in his own right. ===================================== As for Pineda... It depends on the grade of the tear (i.e, how much of the labrum is torn, how badly). The arthroscopic surgery part gives me a little hope. That there is no damage to the rotator cuff (apparently) gives me more hope. Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber*
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:07PM #12
JoeGNJ Posts: 9,578	Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:02PM, qwik3457bb wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:45PM, Hustleorbench wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:40PM, qwik3457bb wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:37PM, Hustleorbench wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:36PM, yikes wrote: pineda is hurt no one could have predicted that.....however i give you vasquez....he stinks Before he was traded, theres been a speculation he was in bad shape. No, there wasn't. Not really. Whatever it is, there's a chance he will never become a power pitcher after the torn labrum surgery. Cashman is in deep s***. It's 2 strikes already with him (Vazquez and now Pineda). The Vazquez deal is something entirely different for several reasons: 1) Vazquez suffered an unexpected dropoff in velocity with the Yanks, but somehow recovered enough to be one of the best pitchers in the NL the 2nd half of last season 2) The Yanks gave up Arodys Vicaino, a very talented pitching prospect who himself just had Tommy John Surgery and is out until next season 3) The still have Boone Logan, and he's been a fairly good lefty out of the pen for them 4) The Yanks got a draft pick from the Marlins signing Vazquez that turned out to be Dante Bichette, Jr., who looks like a pretty good prospect in his own right. ===================================== As for Pineda... It depends on the grade of the tear (i.e, how much of the labrum is torn, how badly). The arthroscopic surgery part gives me a little hope. That there is no damage to the rotator cuff (apparently) gives me more hope. Youre wasting your time trying to alk sense here qwik. Just send them nails, a hammer and a cross so they can go cruicify Cash for intentionally making another one of his horrible deals. JoeGNJ
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:14PM #13
FW57Clipper51 Posts: 9,392	Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:56PM, Hustleorbench wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:50PM, CaptainJeter wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:35PM, Hustleorbench wrote: Just as I predicted.... Great job, Cashman. After suffering through Jay Buhner deal and now this from Seattle again WITH MY FAVORITE PROSPECT. Please stop making risky deals anymore.. 1- Montero had no place here 2-Every GM would have made this trade\ 3-George was the one who traded Buhner and Mike Lowell and Fred McGriff;Cashman was not even the assistant GM at the time. I know. But it still stings. George traded Jay Buhler because the Yankees had some strange fixation with Ken Phelps, drafting him several times while he was playing college baseball, but he didn't sign with the team. They were afraid that the Boston Red Sox would acquire Phelps for their DH. Also George traded for Chicago White Sox hurler Britt Burns, who had a bad hip, despite the advice of the Yankees front office personnel not to do it. Fred McGriff was a 19 year old class A rookie at the time of his trade to the Toronto Blue Jays, he had several other players ahead of him in the New York Yankees minor league system named Mattingly, Balboni, Dodd and some other guy named Showalter. Mike Lowell was expendable because the Yankees had Scott Brious at 3b, they were trying to rebuild the the Yankees minor league pitching talent, but it didn't work out for them with the 3 pitchers that they recieved from Miami. Every trade is a gamble for either team. Stop your whinning about trades made in the 1980's get over it and move on, it's 2012. Clipper
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:16PM #14
TheIronHorse Posts: 838	Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:36PM, yikes wrote: pineda is hurt no one could have predicted that.....however i give you vasquez....he stinks Yes, they could have. Anyone who knows about the Verducci affect had to know it could happen. You may not believe in it, but you have atleast heard of it. He was over-wroked last season. What no one knew is he would come into camp this season out of shape. He was already an injury risk going into the season. Then, he over-compensated for his lack of velocity because he was over-worked the previous season and boom the likelihood of an injury became a reality.
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:24PM #15
slats7 Posts: 96	Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:50PM, CaptainJeter wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:35PM, Hustleorbench wrote: Just as I predicted.... Great job, Cashman. After suffering through Jay Buhner deal and now this from Seattle again WITH MY FAVORITE PROSPECT. Please stop making risky deals anymore.. 1- Montero had no place here 2-Every GM would have made this trade\ 3-George was the one who traded Buhner and Mike Lowell and Fred McGriff;Cashman was not even the assistant GM at the time. So what? I have no doubt the Cash had the best of intentions, as he did with Felicano and Vasquez, but what matters is results. Every Yankee manager that was fired between 1980 and 1995 also had good intentions, but that didn't save their jobs. And no, I don't think it's a coincidence that Pineda blows out his shoulder shortly after the M's unload him. Brian is not the innocent victim of "bad luck" here. "They don't boo nobodies." -- Reggie Jackson
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:30PM #16
yikes Posts: 1,279	Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:16PM, TheIronHorse wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:36PM, yikes wrote: pineda is hurt no one could have predicted that.....however i give you vasquez....he stinks Yes, they could have. Anyone who knows about the Verducci affect had to know it could happen. You may not believe in it, but you have atleast heard of it. He was over-wroked last season. What no one knew is he would come into camp this season out of shape. He was already an injury risk going into the season. Then, he over-compensated for his lack of velocity because he was over-worked the previous season and boom the likelihood of an injury became a reality. cant say ive ever heard of the verducci affect and i have an MD degree. this is just ones baseball writers speculations.....yes its possible but its still his speculations
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:39PM #17
TheIronHorse Posts: 838	Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:30PM, yikes wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:16PM, TheIronHorse wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:36PM, yikes wrote: pineda is hurt no one could have predicted that.....however i give you vasquez....he stinks Yes, they could have. Anyone who knows about the Verducci affect had to know it could happen. You may not believe in it, but you have atleast heard of it. He was over-wroked last season. What no one knew is he would come into camp this season out of shape. He was already an injury risk going into the season. Then, he over-compensated for his lack of velocity because he was over-worked the previous season and boom the likelihood of an injury became a reality. cant say ive ever heard of the verducci affect and i have an MD degree. this is just ones baseball writers speculations.....yes its possible but its still his speculations I'll hunt for the article if you want it. The Verducci affect was a study that Tom Verducci of SI did a few yars ago, where he studied sharp innings increases on young pitchers and how that led to an increase in the likelihood of an injury. He usually talks about pitchers at risk of injury for an upcoming season. I did see Pineda's name on that list. The Yankees definitely know about it, since we all lived through the Joba rules.
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:42PM #18
yikes Posts: 1,279	Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:39PM, TheIronHorse wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:30PM, yikes wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:16PM, TheIronHorse wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:36PM, yikes wrote: pineda is hurt no one could have predicted that.....however i give you vasquez....he stinks Yes, they could have. Anyone who knows about the Verducci affect had to know it could happen. You may not believe in it, but you have atleast heard of it. He was over-wroked last season. What no one knew is he would come into camp this season out of shape. He was already an injury risk going into the season. Then, he over-compensated for his lack of velocity because he was over-worked the previous season and boom the likelihood of an injury became a reality. cant say ive ever heard of the verducci affect and i have an MD degree. this is just ones baseball writers speculations.....yes its possible but its still his speculations I'll hunt for the article if you want it. The Verducci affect was a study that Tom Verducci of SI did a few yars ago, where he studied sharp innings increases on young pitchers and how that led to an increase in the likelihood of an injury. He usually talks about pitchers at risk of injury for an upcoming season. I did see Pineda's name on that list. The Yankees definitely know about it, since we all lived through the Joba rules. thank you..would like to read it however i still think there is no scientific basis in his study...
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:43PM #19
61in61 Posts: 12,283	I have my doubts that Seattle didn't at least have some suspicions about Pineda. You don't trade a 22 year old all-star pitcher when you are trying to rebuild a team.
1 year ago :: Apr 25, 2012 - 6:43PM #20
qwik3457bb Posts: 5,744	Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:16PM, TheIronHorse wrote: Apr 25, 2012 -- 5:36PM, yikes wrote: pineda is hurt no one could have predicted that.....however i give you vasquez....he stinks Yes, they could have. Anyone who knows about the Verducci affect had to know it could happen. You may not believe in it, but you have atleast heard of it. He was over-wroked last season. What no one knew is he would come into camp this season out of shape. He was already an injury risk going into the season. Then, he over-compensated for his lack of velocity because he was over-worked the previous season and boom the likelihood of an injury became a reality. The Mariners shut him down last year to limit his innings. He was 32 innings above 2010's innings total. The evidence for the Verducci Effect is mixed. Now, the 2nd part of this... He came into camp out of shape. The Yanks told him he didn't have a rotation spot nailed down to kick him in the rear. Then the media and management and fans fretted over his reduced velocity, not allowing him to pitch himself back into shape. Plus there were reports of a mechanical flaw, making his FB cut and reducing the velocity. And then, responding the pressure, a young pitcher tries to hard to impress everyone and win a rotation slot that should've been him for the asking, and boom. Whaddya know; major arm injury. Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber

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