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Pineda Deal Looking Even Worse

1 year ago :: May 06, 2012 - 6:52PM #121
RobbieCano Posts: 4,890	May 6, 2012 -- 5:51PM, Raymond757 wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:58PM, yankeedoodle wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:36PM, Stratocaster wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:30PM, yankeeoldfan wrote: Biggest problem, some on here think this is fantasy baseball instead of the real deal... Some think you can just snap your fingers and you can move, trade, or have any one you want.. Sorry folks it just doesn't work that way... Well said. Cashman is the one with can't adjust to reality. He fell for the old bait and switch, he wanted King Felix and ended up with a guy who reported out of shape with an attitude that matches Soriano. You would think there would be some understanding and study of a player's dedication to the game before giving up Montero. That's my feelings too. The trade was a last minute thing and I don't think Cashman did his home work on this one. Yeah because I'm sure you were with Cashman the entire time the the trade process went through.
1 year ago :: May 06, 2012 - 6:59PM #122
BigGuy Posts: 37,975	May 6, 2012 -- 5:51PM, Raymond757 wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:58PM, yankeedoodle wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:36PM, Stratocaster wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:30PM, yankeeoldfan wrote: Biggest problem, some on here think this is fantasy baseball instead of the real deal... Some think you can just snap your fingers and you can move, trade, or have any one you want.. Sorry folks it just doesn't work that way... Well said. Cashman is the one with can't adjust to reality. He fell for the old bait and switch, he wanted King Felix and ended up with a guy who reported out of shape with an attitude that matches Soriano. You would think there would be some understanding and study of a player's dedication to the game before giving up Montero. That's my feelings too. The trade was a last minute thing and I don't think Cashman did his home work on this one. Just because we fans and the media didn't know this trade was going to happen doesn't mean it was some sort of rush job. They kept it quiet on purpose. Suppose it would have fallen thru like the Lee deal? "Never seen a payroll on a ring" "Leave the gun, take the cannoli "
1 year ago :: May 06, 2012 - 7:10PM #123
Stratocaster Posts: 6,405	May 6, 2012 -- 6:52PM, RobbieCano wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 5:51PM, Raymond757 wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:58PM, yankeedoodle wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:36PM, Stratocaster wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:30PM, yankeeoldfan wrote: Biggest problem, some on here think this is fantasy baseball instead of the real deal... Some think you can just snap your fingers and you can move, trade, or have any one you want.. Sorry folks it just doesn't work that way... Well said. Cashman is the one with can't adjust to reality. He fell for the old bait and switch, he wanted King Felix and ended up with a guy who reported out of shape with an attitude that matches Soriano. You would think there would be some understanding and study of a player's dedication to the game before giving up Montero. That's my feelings too. The trade was a last minute thing and I don't think Cashman did his home work on this one. Yeah because I'm sure you were with Cashman the entire time the the trade process went through. Ray is privy to all the good stuff. Unfortunately he was getting Cash his sandwich when this one went down, so he's filling in the gaps by making stuff up. It's understandable.
1 year ago :: May 06, 2012 - 8:31PM #124
MurcerFan Posts: 79	May 6, 2012 -- 5:11PM, AceMitchell wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 1:30PM, MurcerFan wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:29PM, hampfan wrote: I think some of you guys are a little confused and missing what Cashman said during the time of the trade (believe him or not ) and even last season. He said several times last year and during the time of the trade that the Yankees thought that Montero could catch on the major league level. They could have kept him and worked his catching in slowly to see how and if he progresses. That's where I disagree with you. I think Cashman and/or certain members of the FO (e.g., Michaels, I bet) influencing him were trying to juice up Montero's trade value from the get-go. Cashman's statements to the contrary were mostly aimed to increase JM's value on the market, until that time when he could trade him for what he deemed a very good deal. Now his comments abt Montero are post factum rationalizations to justify what he did. There was never any definitive "He's off the table for trades" statement from Cashman about Montero. There ought to have been. Teams just shouldn't trade their best hitting prospects, but instead find ways to make room for them on the big roster. IMO. Anyway, most of us knew (and some here even wished) that JM was being airlifted for a trade sooner or later, which is why I kept hoping and stating for us not to go in that direction. But Cashman did. Of course they were gonna try to pump up his trade value, that's what all teams do. But it wasn't just Cashman, I even read from guys like Keith Law and others that the Yankees truly thought that Montero could catch in the major leagues even though most scouts did not. It wasn't just about getting other teams interested. It just seemed that Cashman and the front office philosophy was to do everything they could do to get as much premier pitching as they could even if it meant trading away a potential great position player. They saw his value as greater in the trade market. The idea that they had no patience with him is just not true. You are never going to hear a "he's off the table" about an offensive player unless he is already established like Cano. They are just much less important and much easy to aquire than premier pitchers. The idea that teams shouldn't just trade away their top hitting propects, is more related to fans wanting to see players come up through their system and feel like they are their guys then if it is the right or wrong thing to do. Each situation/player is different. Everyone would like to have a team that is mostly from their farm system, but most Yankee fans have no patience when it comes to young players unlesss they succeed right away. I didn't like the trade either, but almost all of the reaction now is Monday morning quarterbacking do to the injury. If Pineada was not injured and was pitching well, you wouldn't have any threads like this. That's only the ppl that were in favor or the trade and then jumped ship after every piece of bad news that came out. I'm sure there were ppl against the trade from day one the more they found out about MP. I agree with you there Ace. I was against the trade not so much because I thought that they shouldn't trade Montero, but because they were trading him for an unproven talent who only had 1 full season in the majors. If the deal was for King Felix or someone like him (Still in their 20's and dominant with experience) I would have been all for it even if it meant including Banuelos and Betances. The chances of any of those 3(Montero, Banuelos, Betances) having the impact that a King Felix type would have is slim. I guess all we can do at this point is hope that either Pineda or Campos becomes something of value and maybe even more important that Cashman and Co. really start to re evaluate their pitching philosophy\judgement and see that they have to make some changes. I have my doubts that the last part will happen...
1 year ago :: May 07, 2012 - 12:01AM #125
AceMitchell Posts: 3,782	May 6, 2012 -- 8:31PM, MurcerFan wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 5:11PM, AceMitchell wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 1:30PM, MurcerFan wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:29PM, hampfan wrote: I think some of you guys are a little confused and missing what Cashman said during the time of the trade (believe him or not ) and even last season. He said several times last year and during the time of the trade that the Yankees thought that Montero could catch on the major league level. They could have kept him and worked his catching in slowly to see how and if he progresses. That's where I disagree with you. I think Cashman and/or certain members of the FO (e.g., Michaels, I bet) influencing him were trying to juice up Montero's trade value from the get-go. Cashman's statements to the contrary were mostly aimed to increase JM's value on the market, until that time when he could trade him for what he deemed a very good deal. Now his comments abt Montero are post factum rationalizations to justify what he did. There was never any definitive "He's off the table for trades" statement from Cashman about Montero. There ought to have been. Teams just shouldn't trade their best hitting prospects, but instead find ways to make room for them on the big roster. IMO. Anyway, most of us knew (and some here even wished) that JM was being airlifted for a trade sooner or later, which is why I kept hoping and stating for us not to go in that direction. But Cashman did. Of course they were gonna try to pump up his trade value, that's what all teams do. But it wasn't just Cashman, I even read from guys like Keith Law and others that the Yankees truly thought that Montero could catch in the major leagues even though most scouts did not. It wasn't just about getting other teams interested. It just seemed that Cashman and the front office philosophy was to do everything they could do to get as much premier pitching as they could even if it meant trading away a potential great position player. They saw his value as greater in the trade market. The idea that they had no patience with him is just not true. You are never going to hear a "he's off the table" about an offensive player unless he is already established like Cano. They are just much less important and much easy to aquire than premier pitchers. The idea that teams shouldn't just trade away their top hitting propects, is more related to fans wanting to see players come up through their system and feel like they are their guys then if it is the right or wrong thing to do. Each situation/player is different. Everyone would like to have a team that is mostly from their farm system, but most Yankee fans have no patience when it comes to young players unlesss they succeed right away. I didn't like the trade either, but almost all of the reaction now is Monday morning quarterbacking do to the injury. If Pineada was not injured and was pitching well, you wouldn't have any threads like this. That's only the ppl that were in favor or the trade and then jumped ship after every piece of bad news that came out. I'm sure there were ppl against the trade from day one the more they found out about MP. I agree with you there Ace. I was against the trade not so much because I thought that they shouldn't trade Montero, but because they were trading him for an unproven talent who only had 1 full season in the majors. If the deal was for King Felix or someone like him (Still in their 20's and dominant with experience) I would have been all for it even if it meant including Banuelos and Betances. The chances of any of those 3(Montero, Banuelos, Betances) having the impact that a King Felix type would have is slim. I guess all we can do at this point is hope that either Pineda or Campos becomes something of value and maybe even more important that Cashman and Co. really start to re evaluate their pitching philosophy\judgement and see that they have to make some changes. I have my doubts that the last part will happen... I have my doubts as well. when it comes to pitching for whatever reason they aren't good at it. Hopefully they can get a couple of good pitchers from the group they have at the moment especially with the 189 goal that they want to implement. To anyone going through a difficult time right now remember someone always has it worse.
1 year ago :: May 07, 2012 - 9:58AM #126
LiferYank Posts: 1,802	May 6, 2012 -- 5:25PM, GiuseppeFranco wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:07PM, Stratocaster wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 11:35AM, GiuseppeFranco wrote: Doodle, you're spot on. Imho, the yanks should have tried to work out a trade with miami for aroid this past winter. Its his home and they wanted to make a splash. I know they said he didnt want to go anywhere, but if they got creative, it couldve been the opportunity to rid the team of that albatross. And montero couldve been the back up catcher and dh. Ugh, what a disaster. Respectfully, while that's a nice idea in theory, there is the small matter of Arod's no-trade clause to consider. I know it's all the rage to blame Cashman, but that's just piling on. Even if the no-trade weren't there, those kind of deals just never get done. That's just not reasonable. And respectfully, Cash deserves every bit of angst he gets from fans these days. He just gave Jesus Montero away for zilch. I all the "bad luck" talk, but it's been bad luck for a long time now. It was a stupid trade. I believe he got played. It smelled fishy from the get go. And I'ver been a cashman supporter, but this one pushed me away. As for the a-rod thing, I also understand he has a no-trade, and has said he wouldn't waive it. Well, what was he going to say? I can't imagine he wouldn't have wanted to go to Miami and open the new stadium. It's all speculation, just me yapping. Just think it was an opportunity that needed to be explored. I recognize I'm frustrated and blowing off some steam. Why the @#^#^ would Miami have traded for Arod even if he would wave his no trade clause? I will clue you in. They already have a 3b and there is no DH would they have traded for him to play him at 1b for the nexy 6 years? His contract for a declining player to "make a splash" as you put it? Come on now.
1 year ago :: May 07, 2012 - 10:21AM #127
craner7 Posts: 12,782	Bring Andy up.....I think being with the guys and pitching in that uniform again will give him a few miles on the FB....he looked good enough to me yesterday.
1 year ago :: May 07, 2012 - 11:59AM #128
GiuseppeFranco Posts: 849	Don't be cursing at be lifer-jagoff. It was an idea that was talked about here ib miami last season quite a bit. When they fanned on pujols, they might have bitten. Who they have playing third now isn't arod. Schmuck.
1 year ago :: May 07, 2012 - 12:57PM #129
theBaron Posts: 487	May 7, 2012 -- 12:01AM, AceMitchell wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 8:31PM, MurcerFan wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 5:11PM, AceMitchell wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 1:30PM, MurcerFan wrote: May 6, 2012 -- 12:29PM, hampfan wrote: I think some of you guys are a little confused and missing what Cashman said during the time of the trade (believe him or not ) and even last season. He said several times last year and during the time of the trade that the Yankees thought that Montero could catch on the major league level. They could have kept him and worked his catching in slowly to see how and if he progresses. That's where I disagree with you. I think Cashman and/or certain members of the FO (e.g., Michaels, I bet) influencing him were trying to juice up Montero's trade value from the get-go. Cashman's statements to the contrary were mostly aimed to increase JM's value on the market, until that time when he could trade him for what he deemed a very good deal. Now his comments abt Montero are post factum rationalizations to justify what he did. There was never any definitive "He's off the table for trades" statement from Cashman about Montero. There ought to have been. Teams just shouldn't trade their best hitting prospects, but instead find ways to make room for them on the big roster. IMO. Anyway, most of us knew (and some here even wished) that JM was being airlifted for a trade sooner or later, which is why I kept hoping and stating for us not to go in that direction. But Cashman did. Of course they were gonna try to pump up his trade value, that's what all teams do. But it wasn't just Cashman, I even read from guys like Keith Law and others that the Yankees truly thought that Montero could catch in the major leagues even though most scouts did not. It wasn't just about getting other teams interested. It just seemed that Cashman and the front office philosophy was to do everything they could do to get as much premier pitching as they could even if it meant trading away a potential great position player. They saw his value as greater in the trade market. The idea that they had no patience with him is just not true. You are never going to hear a "he's off the table" about an offensive player unless he is already established like Cano. They are just much less important and much easy to aquire than premier pitchers. The idea that teams shouldn't just trade away their top hitting propects, is more related to fans wanting to see players come up through their system and feel like they are their guys then if it is the right or wrong thing to do. Each situation/player is different. Everyone would like to have a team that is mostly from their farm system, but most Yankee fans have no patience when it comes to young players unlesss they succeed right away. I didn't like the trade either, but almost all of the reaction now is Monday morning quarterbacking do to the injury. If Pineada was not injured and was pitching well, you wouldn't have any threads like this. That's only the ppl that were in favor or the trade and then jumped ship after every piece of bad news that came out. I'm sure there were ppl against the trade from day one the more they found out about MP. I agree with you there Ace. I was against the trade not so much because I thought that they shouldn't trade Montero, but because they were trading him for an unproven talent who only had 1 full season in the majors. If the deal was for King Felix or someone like him (Still in their 20's and dominant with experience) I would have been all for it even if it meant including Banuelos and Betances. The chances of any of those 3(Montero, Banuelos, Betances) having the impact that a King Felix type would have is slim. I guess all we can do at this point is hope that either Pineda or Campos becomes something of value and maybe even more important that Cashman and Co. really start to re evaluate their pitching philosophy\judgement and see that they have to make some changes. I have my doubts that the last part will happen... I have my doubts as well. when it comes to pitching for whatever reason they aren't good at it. Hopefully they can get a couple of good pitchers from the group they have at the moment especially with the 189 goal that they want to implement. hi ACE ! ... injuries just happen ..if the injury was there B4 the trade..then either a tech, or Doctor missed it ..Cash is saying it happened after ..well if thats the case it's just a bad break for the yankees. cashman needs to find a # 4 & #5 ... simple right ? "it's when the Yankees score eight runs in the first inning .....and then slowly pull away" Yankees owner Jacob Ruppert , on a perfect afternoon at Yankee Stadium.
1 year ago :: May 07, 2012 - 3:01PM #130
hampfan Posts: 909	[/quote] Of course they were gonna try to pump up his trade value, that's what all teams do. But it wasn't just Cashman, I even read from guys like Keith Law and others that the Yankees truly thought that Montero could catch in the major leagues even though most scouts did not. It wasn't just about getting other teams interested. It just seemed that Cashman and the front office philosophy was to do everything they could do to get as much premier pitching as they could even if it meant trading away a potential great position player. They saw his value as greater in the trade market. The idea that they had no patience with him is just not true. You are never going to hear a "he's off the table" about an offensive player unless he is already established like Cano. They are just much less important and much easy to aquire than premier pitchers. The idea that teams shouldn't just trade away their top hitting propects, is more related to fans wanting to see players come up through their system and feel like they are their guys then if it is the right or wrong thing to do. Each situation/player is different. Everyone would like to have a team that is mostly from their farm system, but most Yankee fans have no patience when it comes to young players unlesss they succeed right away. I didn't like the trade either, but almost all of the reaction now is Monday morning quarterbacking do to the injury. If Pineada was not injured and was pitching well, you wouldn't have any threads like this. [/quote] That's only the ppl that were in favor or the trade and then jumped ship after every piece of bad news that came out. I'm sure there were ppl against the trade from day one the more they found out about MP. [/quote] I was against the trade before it was made, and said so on these boards when I never knew about Pineda/Campos as possibilitis. I thought it was wrong then, and continue to think that, regardless of how Pineda and Campos turn out for us. (Let's hope they recover and realize their promise.) I don't think it's all that easy to replace a positve, offensive player in our system, certainly not at the price it would take (e.g., A-Rod) compared with a Montero who's capable of knocking in 100 runs per year. People on this board also wanted to trade away Cano several years back. That was just as wrongheaded. So far, Cashman's pitching philosophy doesn't match even George S's normally futile sprees in that department. At least he brought us a Catfish once in a while. Cashman brings us Kuroda and--let's hope he doesn't trade away another of our offensive studs at AA--maybe a Garza, both expensive and iffy. I've supported Cashman before the trade; I'm skeptical from this point on about doing so anymore. I bet, anyway, that he'll leave the GM post the next time his three-year contract runs out.