YES Network.com

May 6, 2012 -- 2:47PM, newinn wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 2:45PM, Stratocaster wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 2:25PM, yankeedoodle wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 1:53PM, CaptainJeter wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 12:58PM, yankeedoodle wrote:

[Cashman is the one with can't adjust to reality.  He fell for the old bait and switch, he wanted King Felix and ended up with a guy who reported out of shape with an attitude that matches Soriano.   You would think there would be some understanding and study of a player's dedication to the game before giving up Montero.  

 

you have no proof to support this statement. You weren't there in the meetings. This is just your opinion .

The first is a fan assumption based on the reality that Cash has looked into getting King Felix many times and a Montero deal was speculated.  The second is an observation based on the fact that the guy showed up overweight his second season in the bigs accompanied by a chip on his shoulder.

So Cashman went after Felix and settled for Pineda. Then Pineda showed up 10 lbs... no ... 20 lbs... no... 30 lbs overweight. Now he has a bad attitude? Even if some of this ends up being true, your logic is seriously flawed.

 

Hey strato! Sanchez say's hi!

lol.  Me and Eric got re-named by the same person.  I'm finally in good company.  ;)

May 6, 2012 -- 11:50AM, MurcerFan wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 10:03AM, AceMitchell wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 8:38AM, hampfan wrote:

I agree Montero would have been a good full time DH, but what are they going to do with A-Rod, Jeter etc. just sit them on the bench when they need rest  ?? For some reason and I'm sure they know more then we do on these boards, the Yankees didn't feel Montero could handle the catching duties for this team..  People don't realize just how important a catcher is to a team.. Hitting really comes second at that position, it's a very demanding defensive position on the field and a catcher more times then one thinks can save more runs with his defense then he ever makes up for with his bat..

Like so many have said, this trade is history, we didn't come out with it looking good right now, but I think it's too early to really see if this trade was a bust or not.. The good both players we recieved in this deal are young and still have time to become what we had hoped... Like the old saying, don't cry over spilt milk, it's over, it's time for all of us to get over it, there's nothing else that can be done...

And yet, for all the predictions abt his being a "butcher" (Newfire) at catching, he caught King Felix last night, apparently without horrific issues. Couldn't we have had more patience with a 22 yr old whose offensive upside was as promising as Pineda's supposed pitching one? I  think the people running our team's organization have dropped the ball and succumbed to the shibboleth of "It's always pitching, stupid." It isn't JUST pitching that wins. Nor is it just pitching that excites a fan base.

Which is weird when you think about about. They didn't believe he could catch here but yet he's catching the King in Seattle. I understand it's Felix and he's great but if he was as bad as ppl say wouldn't the Ms keep him away from catching their biggest asset.

They had no patience for Montero but yet every time  Nunez botches a ball all you hear is he's a young kid, it's not easy, he's still learning, etc.

I think some of you guys are a little confused and missing what Cashman said during the time of the trade (believe him or not ) and even last season. He said several times last year and during the time of the trade that the Yankees thought that Montero could catch on the major league level. They could have kept him and worked his catching in slowly to see how and if he progresses.

You can't compare this to Nunez. Nunez has very little trade value compared to Montero. Motero has a potential 300/30/100+ bat and eveyone around the majors knows that.

This wasn't really an issue of them lacking patience with Montero but that they valued him as more important as a potential trade chip for a premier pitcher.

I wasn't for the trade myself and think Cashman's record with pitching is shaky at best. I would have liked for the Yankees to keep Montero but I think the thought of getting this potentially great young fireballer for them outweighed keeping another great bat.

This still could work out if 1 or both of those pitchers turns out to be a #1 starter , but chances are better that this trade will go down as a big swing and miss for Cashman. Though I do think this trade has more bad luck involved than anything else, especially now if Campos is hurt as well.

That said, if some of these younger guys like Banuelos or Betances don't work out as well or get hurt you really have to not only serious question Cashman's ability but the whole organization's ability to evaluate and develop pitching. If it wasn't for Robertson and Nova they would have just about nothing to show for when it comes to developing good young pitching.

Cashman said that just to maintain his trade value. They thought he could catch but barely let him catch in September. They flew Romine all the way to LA just to catch a game.

I'm comparing the almost blind faith the have in Nunez to the lack of faith they had in MOntero.

Lack of patience probably not but they certainly had zero faith in him.

Very well said on the last topic with Drob and Nova.

May 6, 2012 -- 1:30PM, MurcerFan wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 12:29PM, hampfan wrote:

I think some of you guys are a little confused and missing what Cashman said during the time of the trade (believe him or not ) and even last season. He said several times last year and during the time of the trade that the Yankees thought that Montero could catch on the major league level. They could have kept him and worked his catching in slowly to see how and if he progresses.

That's where I disagree with you. I think Cashman and/or certain members of the FO (e.g., Michaels, I bet) influencing him were trying to juice up Montero's trade value from the get-go. Cashman's statements to the contrary were mostly aimed to increase JM's value on the market, until that time when he could trade him for what he deemed a very good deal. Now his comments abt Montero are post factum rationalizations to justify what he did. There was never any definitive "He's off the table for trades" statement from Cashman about Montero. There ought to have been. Teams just shouldn't trade their best hitting prospects, but instead find ways to make room for them on the big roster. IMO. Anyway, most of us knew (and some here even wished) that JM was being airlifted for a trade sooner or later, which is why I kept hoping and stating for us not to go in that direction. But Cashman did.

Of course they were gonna try to pump up his trade value, that's what all teams do. But it wasn't just Cashman, I even read from guys like Keith Law and others that the Yankees truly thought that Montero could catch in the major leagues even though most scouts did not. It wasn't just about getting other teams interested. It just seemed that Cashman and the front office philosophy was to do everything they could do to get as much premier pitching as they could even if it meant trading away a potential great position player. They saw his value as greater in the trade market. The idea that they had no patience with him is just not true.

You are never going to hear a "he's off the table" about an offensive player unless he is already established like Cano. They are just much less important and much easy to aquire than premier pitchers. The idea that teams shouldn't just trade away their top hitting propects, is more related to fans wanting to see players come up through their system and feel like they are their guys then if it is the right or wrong thing to do.

 Each situation/player is different. Everyone would like to have a team that is mostly from their farm system, but most Yankee fans have no patience when it comes to young players unlesss they succeed right away.

 I didn't like the trade either, but almost all of the reaction now is Monday morning quarterbacking do to the injury. If Pineada was not injured and was pitching well, you wouldn't have any threads like this.

That's only the ppl that were in favor or the trade and then jumped ship after every piece of bad news that came out. I'm sure there were ppl against the trade from day one the more they found out about MP.

May 6, 2012 -- 5:25PM, GiuseppeFranco wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 12:07PM, Stratocaster wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 11:35AM, GiuseppeFranco wrote:

Doodle, you're spot on. Imho, the yanks should have tried to work out a trade with miami for aroid this past winter. Its his home and they wanted to make a splash. I know they said he didnt want to go anywhere, but if they got creative, it couldve been the opportunity to rid the team of that albatross. And montero couldve been the back up catcher and dh. Ugh, what a disaster.

Respectfully, while that's a nice idea in theory, there is the small matter of Arod's no-trade clause to consider. I know it's all the rage to blame Cashman, but that's just piling on. Even if the no-trade weren't there, those kind of deals just never get done. That's just not reasonable.

And respectfully, Cash deserves every bit of angst he gets from fans these days. He just gave Jesus Montero away for zilch. I all the "bad luck" talk, but it's been bad luck for a long time now. It was a stupid trade. I believe he got played. It smelled fishy from the get go. And I'ver been a cashman supporter, but this one pushed me away. As for the a-rod thing, I also understand he has a no-trade, and has said he wouldn't waive it. Well, what was he going to say? I can't imagine he wouldn't have wanted to go to Miami and open the new stadium. It's all speculation, just me yapping. Just think it was an opportunity that needed to be explored. I recognize I'm frustrated and blowing off some steam. 

Blowing off steam is fine, and you're a good dude.  Heck, your hair products are legendary!  And I get the frustration and the Montero stuff.  The Arod trade proposal was BS though.  Had to call you on that.  ;)

May 6, 2012 -- 5:51PM, Raymond757 wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 12:58PM, yankeedoodle wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 12:36PM, Stratocaster wrote:

May 6, 2012 -- 12:30PM, yankeeoldfan wrote:

Biggest problem, some on here think this is fantasy baseball instead of the real deal... Some think you can just snap your fingers and you can move, trade, or have any one you want.. Sorry folks it just doesn't work that way...

Well said.

Cashman is the one with can't adjust to reality.  He fell for the old bait and switch, he wanted King Felix and ended up with a guy who reported out of shape with an attitude that matches Soriano.   You would think there would be some understanding and study of a player's dedication to the game before giving up Montero.  

That's my feelings too.

The trade was a last minute thing and I don't think Cashman did his home work on this one.

Just where do you think Cashman cheated on his home work ??  The Dr.'s gave him a complete physical, they dotted all their I's and crossed all there T's what else would you have thought they should have done ??  I truly doubt they did this as a spear of the moment deal ??  I'm sure they wanted this trade but they just didn't jump in bed with it on a spur of the minute thing..