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Religion in our Public Schools
2 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 9:04AM #31
61in61
Posts: 18,446

Dec 24, 2012 -- 12:07AM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 4:02PM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 11:52AM, bomberhojoe wrote:

It is Satan and the world's evils that tempt us and God has given us the freedom to choose. We can choose to love Him and love one another or to hate. We can also choose the gift of His Son and eternity with Him. May He bless those hurt by the CT tragedy and all of us this Christmas and in the days ahead.



A lot of these things I just don't grasp. I hear people who survive a tornado say how thankful they are that God spared their lives. Well...duh...if God did indeed spare them why didn't he just stop the tornado altogether and spare everyone the grief?


I can understand believing in God the creator, but this business of Him intervening in every aspect of everyone's life is kinda crazy. I just think things happen: God or Satan didn't have anything to do with it. Also, just because God exists doesn't mean that Satan exists. The universe is constantly creating and destroying. When our sun explodes and destroys the earth its not evil or the work of Satan, its just a force of nature. Similarly if someone kills someone its not necessarily the result of evil. Its just another event in the chain of life. Humans put the brand of right and wrong on an event but nature could care less. Fifty million people could be killed tomorrow at the hands of some individual and the sun will still shine for another 5 billion years or so.




Most of the question comes down to free will.  We have the ability to choose, and sadly the ability maintain our autonomy depends heavily on not knowing.  If we could prove God existed, what would be the point of free will?  If God showed himself to us on a daily basis, who would sin, knowing without a doubt the consequences?  Would we need to have faith? 


Now, I do not know Gods plans, or why certain things happen in the ways they do, but I do have faith that these events do serve a purpose.  Perhaps, it will change people, perhaps it will lead to a greater good, no matter how I look at this as much as it saddens me, I know it is what had to be.


The concepts are more complex than I can express in my normal (multiple page) replies. 


I believe we are responsible for the Evil on this world, and God is responsible for the Good.  If we got our act together, maybe it would be rainbows and lollipops all the time, but we can't seem to agree (as a People) on much of anything. 



 




Most Christians do believe thay have proof that God exists and that He shows himself on a daily basis but they still insist people have free wiil. So, it seems that Christianity has created a bit of a paradox. This reminds me of the astronomers who were always inventing more complex schemes to explain the movement of the stars and planets when the earth was beleived to be at the center of the universe. When they finally realized that the sun was the center of the solar system and just a small speck in the Milky Way galaxy everything became much more simple to understand. Its difficult to make logical sense of a paradox.

2 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2012 - 11:38AM #32
ArtVandelay
Posts: 15,550

Dec 24, 2012 -- 3:54AM, dixieyank wrote:


I'm no longer a believer in anything.





not even Peter Pan peanut butter?

2 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2012 - 2:58PM #33
bomberhojoe
Posts: 9,471
I don't understand how God showing Himself and people having free will is a paradox. God causes the sun to rise each day and lets me decide if I should be kind or hateful, where's the paradox?
John 3:16 * Ephesians 2:8-9 * Romans 10:9-10 * John 14:3-6 * Romans 5:8
2 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2012 - 4:40PM #34
Demonseed
Posts: 1,456

Dec 24, 2012 -- 9:04AM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 24, 2012 -- 12:07AM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 4:02PM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 11:52AM, bomberhojoe wrote:

It is Satan and the world's evils that tempt us and God has given us the freedom to choose. We can choose to love Him and love one another or to hate. We can also choose the gift of His Son and eternity with Him. May He bless those hurt by the CT tragedy and all of us this Christmas and in the days ahead.



A lot of these things I just don't grasp. I hear people who survive a tornado say how thankful they are that God spared their lives. Well...duh...if God did indeed spare them why didn't he just stop the tornado altogether and spare everyone the grief?


I can understand believing in God the creator, but this business of Him intervening in every aspect of everyone's life is kinda crazy. I just think things happen: God or Satan didn't have anything to do with it. Also, just because God exists doesn't mean that Satan exists. The universe is constantly creating and destroying. When our sun explodes and destroys the earth its not evil or the work of Satan, its just a force of nature. Similarly if someone kills someone its not necessarily the result of evil. Its just another event in the chain of life. Humans put the brand of right and wrong on an event but nature could care less. Fifty million people could be killed tomorrow at the hands of some individual and the sun will still shine for another 5 billion years or so.




Most of the question comes down to free will.  We have the ability to choose, and sadly the ability maintain our autonomy depends heavily on not knowing.  If we could prove God existed, what would be the point of free will?  If God showed himself to us on a daily basis, who would sin, knowing without a doubt the consequences?  Would we need to have faith? 


Now, I do not know Gods plans, or why certain things happen in the ways they do, but I do have faith that these events do serve a purpose.  Perhaps, it will change people, perhaps it will lead to a greater good, no matter how I look at this as much as it saddens me, I know it is what had to be.


The concepts are more complex than I can express in my normal (multiple page) replies. 


I believe we are responsible for the Evil on this world, and God is responsible for the Good.  If we got our act together, maybe it would be rainbows and lollipops all the time, but we can't seem to agree (as a People) on much of anything. 



 




Most Christians do believe thay have proof that God exists and that He shows himself on a daily basis but they still insist people have free wiil. So, it seems that Christianity has created a bit of a paradox. This reminds me of the astronomers who were always inventing more complex schemes to explain the movement of the stars and planets when the earth was beleived to be at the center of the universe. When they finally realized that the sun was the center of the solar system and just a small speck in the Milky Way galaxy everything became much more simple to understand. Its difficult to make logical sense of a paradox.





The paradox is wanting (or feeling a need) to prove God exists. 


People seem to forget that Faith, is by definition a belief in something we can not prove, but that does not mean or imply that it is not real or true. 


Think of it like this; We know there are Police Officers, we see them on a regular basis, we know they will arrest us if they catch us committing a crime, but people still commit crimes.  Now, if a cop was constantly with you and you were overtly aware of his/her presence every second of every day, chances are you probably would not commit a crime. 


Now many people know God exists, many people truely believe he exists, and God is with us every second of every day but we don't see him sitting in the passenger seat, we don't see him walking with us, and for some (if not all of us) the lack of that physical presence allows us to sin.  It doesn't make us bad people or evil, it makes us Human.  It is the true challenge of our being, to be allowed to act of our own accord without God directly intervening in our lives, all the while knowing he is there.


Our own actions do not diminish the existence of God, no more than a criminal committing a crime would affect the existence of the Police.  The consequences of our actions are still our responsibility.


Yet, there is little I can do to convince another person that God exists, not in a definitive way.  I don't think it would matter though even if I could.  Think back to the Police analogy, unless that cop was practically holding our hands, people still going to steal, speed, cheat, etc....

2 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2012 - 6:20PM #35
bomberhojoe
Posts: 9,471
I like your police analogy, demon. But just like I might warn someone to watch their speed on a certain stretch of interstate for their own good, I choose to warn them that God in the Bible warns us to believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection for salvation. I can warn and they can decide to do what they want with the information.
John 3:16 * Ephesians 2:8-9 * Romans 10:9-10 * John 14:3-6 * Romans 5:8
2 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2012 - 8:54PM #36
61in61
Posts: 18,446

Dec 26, 2012 -- 4:40PM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 24, 2012 -- 9:04AM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 24, 2012 -- 12:07AM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 4:02PM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 11:52AM, bomberhojoe wrote:

It is Satan and the world's evils that tempt us and God has given us the freedom to choose. We can choose to love Him and love one another or to hate. We can also choose the gift of His Son and eternity with Him. May He bless those hurt by the CT tragedy and all of us this Christmas and in the days ahead.



A lot of these things I just don't grasp. I hear people who survive a tornado say how thankful they are that God spared their lives. Well...duh...if God did indeed spare them why didn't he just stop the tornado altogether and spare everyone the grief?


I can understand believing in God the creator, but this business of Him intervening in every aspect of everyone's life is kinda crazy. I just think things happen: God or Satan didn't have anything to do with it. Also, just because God exists doesn't mean that Satan exists. The universe is constantly creating and destroying. When our sun explodes and destroys the earth its not evil or the work of Satan, its just a force of nature. Similarly if someone kills someone its not necessarily the result of evil. Its just another event in the chain of life. Humans put the brand of right and wrong on an event but nature could care less. Fifty million people could be killed tomorrow at the hands of some individual and the sun will still shine for another 5 billion years or so.




Most of the question comes down to free will.  We have the ability to choose, and sadly the ability maintain our autonomy depends heavily on not knowing.  If we could prove God existed, what would be the point of free will?  If God showed himself to us on a daily basis, who would sin, knowing without a doubt the consequences?  Would we need to have faith? 


Now, I do not know Gods plans, or why certain things happen in the ways they do, but I do have faith that these events do serve a purpose.  Perhaps, it will change people, perhaps it will lead to a greater good, no matter how I look at this as much as it saddens me, I know it is what had to be.


The concepts are more complex than I can express in my normal (multiple page) replies. 


I believe we are responsible for the Evil on this world, and God is responsible for the Good.  If we got our act together, maybe it would be rainbows and lollipops all the time, but we can't seem to agree (as a People) on much of anything. 



 




Most Christians do believe thay have proof that God exists and that He shows himself on a daily basis but they still insist people have free wiil. So, it seems that Christianity has created a bit of a paradox. This reminds me of the astronomers who were always inventing more complex schemes to explain the movement of the stars and planets when the earth was beleived to be at the center of the universe. When they finally realized that the sun was the center of the solar system and just a small speck in the Milky Way galaxy everything became much more simple to understand. Its difficult to make logical sense of a paradox.





The paradox is wanting (or feeling a need) to prove God exists. 


People seem to forget that Faith, is by definition a belief in something we can not prove, but that does not mean or imply that it is not real or true. 


Think of it like this; We know there are Police Officers, we see them on a regular basis, we know they will arrest us if they catch us committing a crime, but people still commit crimes.  Now, if a cop was constantly with you and you were overtly aware of his/her presence every second of every day, chances are you probably would not commit a crime. 


Now many people know God exists, many people truely believe he exists, and God is with us every second of every day but we don't see him sitting in the passenger seat, we don't see him walking with us, and for some (if not all of us) the lack of that physical presence allows us to sin.  It doesn't make us bad people or evil, it makes us Human.  It is the true challenge of our being, to be allowed to act of our own accord without God directly intervening in our lives, all the while knowing he is there.


Our own actions do not diminish the existence of God, no more than a criminal committing a crime would affect the existence of the Police.  The consequences of our actions are still our responsibility.


Yet, there is little I can do to convince another person that God exists, not in a definitive way.  I don't think it would matter though even if I could.  Think back to the Police analogy, unless that cop was practically holding our hands, people still going to steal, speed, cheat, etc....




Many Christians believe they do have proof that God exists. As Bomber mentioned, just the fact that we are alive and the sun rises in the morning is irrefutable proof. it would be impossible for life to exist without God, ergo there must be a God. The "proof"is just as valid as E=MC². Now the paradox is, why do these believers still sin? A scientist certainly wouldn't argue that the Sun revolves around the earth when it is a known scientific fact that it doesn't. Another example would involve electricity. We all know what happens if we stick a finger in a light socket. How many of us decide to stick a finger in a ligfht socket just because we have the ability and opportunity to do so?


The paradox is that if God truly does exist there is no such thing as free will.

2 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2012 - 11:36PM #37
Demonseed
Posts: 1,456

Dec 26, 2012 -- 8:54PM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 26, 2012 -- 4:40PM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 24, 2012 -- 9:04AM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 24, 2012 -- 12:07AM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 4:02PM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 11:52AM, bomberhojoe wrote:

It is Satan and the world's evils that tempt us and God has given us the freedom to choose. We can choose to love Him and love one another or to hate. We can also choose the gift of His Son and eternity with Him. May He bless those hurt by the CT tragedy and all of us this Christmas and in the days ahead.



A lot of these things I just don't grasp. I hear people who survive a tornado say how thankful they are that God spared their lives. Well...duh...if God did indeed spare them why didn't he just stop the tornado altogether and spare everyone the grief?


I can understand believing in God the creator, but this business of Him intervening in every aspect of everyone's life is kinda crazy. I just think things happen: God or Satan didn't have anything to do with it. Also, just because God exists doesn't mean that Satan exists. The universe is constantly creating and destroying. When our sun explodes and destroys the earth its not evil or the work of Satan, its just a force of nature. Similarly if someone kills someone its not necessarily the result of evil. Its just another event in the chain of life. Humans put the brand of right and wrong on an event but nature could care less. Fifty million people could be killed tomorrow at the hands of some individual and the sun will still shine for another 5 billion years or so.




Most of the question comes down to free will.  We have the ability to choose, and sadly the ability maintain our autonomy depends heavily on not knowing.  If we could prove God existed, what would be the point of free will?  If God showed himself to us on a daily basis, who would sin, knowing without a doubt the consequences?  Would we need to have faith? 


Now, I do not know Gods plans, or why certain things happen in the ways they do, but I do have faith that these events do serve a purpose.  Perhaps, it will change people, perhaps it will lead to a greater good, no matter how I look at this as much as it saddens me, I know it is what had to be.


The concepts are more complex than I can express in my normal (multiple page) replies. 


I believe we are responsible for the Evil on this world, and God is responsible for the Good.  If we got our act together, maybe it would be rainbows and lollipops all the time, but we can't seem to agree (as a People) on much of anything. 



 




Most Christians do believe thay have proof that God exists and that He shows himself on a daily basis but they still insist people have free wiil. So, it seems that Christianity has created a bit of a paradox. This reminds me of the astronomers who were always inventing more complex schemes to explain the movement of the stars and planets when the earth was beleived to be at the center of the universe. When they finally realized that the sun was the center of the solar system and just a small speck in the Milky Way galaxy everything became much more simple to understand. Its difficult to make logical sense of a paradox.





The paradox is wanting (or feeling a need) to prove God exists. 


People seem to forget that Faith, is by definition a belief in something we can not prove, but that does not mean or imply that it is not real or true. 


Think of it like this; We know there are Police Officers, we see them on a regular basis, we know they will arrest us if they catch us committing a crime, but people still commit crimes.  Now, if a cop was constantly with you and you were overtly aware of his/her presence every second of every day, chances are you probably would not commit a crime. 


Now many people know God exists, many people truely believe he exists, and God is with us every second of every day but we don't see him sitting in the passenger seat, we don't see him walking with us, and for some (if not all of us) the lack of that physical presence allows us to sin.  It doesn't make us bad people or evil, it makes us Human.  It is the true challenge of our being, to be allowed to act of our own accord without God directly intervening in our lives, all the while knowing he is there.


Our own actions do not diminish the existence of God, no more than a criminal committing a crime would affect the existence of the Police.  The consequences of our actions are still our responsibility.


Yet, there is little I can do to convince another person that God exists, not in a definitive way.  I don't think it would matter though even if I could.  Think back to the Police analogy, unless that cop was practically holding our hands, people still going to steal, speed, cheat, etc....




Many Christians believe they do have proof that God exists. As Bomber mentioned, just the fact that we are alive and the sun rises in the morning is irrefutable proof. it would be impossible for life to exist without God, ergo there must be a God. The "proof"is just as valid as E=MC². Now the paradox is, why do these believers still sin? A scientist certainly wouldn't argue that the Sun revolves around the earth when it is a known scientific fact that it doesn't. Another example would involve electricity. We all know what happens if we stick a finger in a light socket. How many of us decide to stick a finger in a ligfht socket just because we have the ability and opportunity to do so?


The paradox is that if God truly does exist there is no such thing as free will.




You can't confuse physics with metaphysics, many people tried to create ontological arguments that proved God exists, many people refer to miracles of all varieties, but that 'Proof' is not scientific.  There will always be a desire to quantify or rationalize our beliefs, it is not a bad thing, but it does not encapsulate the entire belief system.


"the fact we are alive and the sun rises in the morning is irrefutable proof".  Yes, it is to some people.  That is an internal assessment, it is an ancedotal argument.  It can't be quantified, it is not knowledge a priori, perhaps it dwells with the sublime.  The fact is, even with an internal acceptance that God exists without question, our actions are still dictated by our own conscience, not by the will of God.  As I tried to point out with the Police analogy, just because we have Police, just because people know they are there, does not prevent them from committing crimes.  Using your reasoning, since people commit crimes the Police can not exist.


The analogy can be extended, a cop won't pull you over because you intend to speed (yes I know some people will argue this, but take it for what it is worth), they will wait for you to speed to give you a ticket.  If you speed and get into an accident, do you blame the police for not pulling you over before you sped?


All of these arguments become circular.  As I pointed out, by definition Faith is a belief in something that can not be proved.  Most of our lives, our society, our knowledge, in some way depends on faith.  Even the equation E=MC^2 requires us to have faith, simply put there are maybe 6 people on the planet that actually understand the Theory of Relativity and I doubt any of them are on this board.  You or me, if we had to prove that equation we could never do it.  We accept it because we know someone else has proved it. 


Believers still sin because we are Human.  It may sound like a cop out (pun intended) but we as humans do a lot of things we can't explain, that we don't understand, and know we shouldn't do (even if not a sin and it is just plain stupid). 

2 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 8:56AM #38
61in61
Posts: 18,446

Dec 26, 2012 -- 11:36PM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 26, 2012 -- 8:54PM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 26, 2012 -- 4:40PM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 24, 2012 -- 9:04AM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 24, 2012 -- 12:07AM, Demonseed wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 4:02PM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 11:52AM, bomberhojoe wrote:

It is Satan and the world's evils that tempt us and God has given us the freedom to choose. We can choose to love Him and love one another or to hate. We can also choose the gift of His Son and eternity with Him. May He bless those hurt by the CT tragedy and all of us this Christmas and in the days ahead.



A lot of these things I just don't grasp. I hear people who survive a tornado say how thankful they are that God spared their lives. Well...duh...if God did indeed spare them why didn't he just stop the tornado altogether and spare everyone the grief?


I can understand believing in God the creator, but this business of Him intervening in every aspect of everyone's life is kinda crazy. I just think things happen: God or Satan didn't have anything to do with it. Also, just because God exists doesn't mean that Satan exists. The universe is constantly creating and destroying. When our sun explodes and destroys the earth its not evil or the work of Satan, its just a force of nature. Similarly if someone kills someone its not necessarily the result of evil. Its just another event in the chain of life. Humans put the brand of right and wrong on an event but nature could care less. Fifty million people could be killed tomorrow at the hands of some individual and the sun will still shine for another 5 billion years or so.




Most of the question comes down to free will.  We have the ability to choose, and sadly the ability maintain our autonomy depends heavily on not knowing.  If we could prove God existed, what would be the point of free will?  If God showed himself to us on a daily basis, who would sin, knowing without a doubt the consequences?  Would we need to have faith? 


Now, I do not know Gods plans, or why certain things happen in the ways they do, but I do have faith that these events do serve a purpose.  Perhaps, it will change people, perhaps it will lead to a greater good, no matter how I look at this as much as it saddens me, I know it is what had to be.


The concepts are more complex than I can express in my normal (multiple page) replies. 


I believe we are responsible for the Evil on this world, and God is responsible for the Good.  If we got our act together, maybe it would be rainbows and lollipops all the time, but we can't seem to agree (as a People) on much of anything. 



 




Most Christians do believe thay have proof that God exists and that He shows himself on a daily basis but they still insist people have free wiil. So, it seems that Christianity has created a bit of a paradox. This reminds me of the astronomers who were always inventing more complex schemes to explain the movement of the stars and planets when the earth was beleived to be at the center of the universe. When they finally realized that the sun was the center of the solar system and just a small speck in the Milky Way galaxy everything became much more simple to understand. Its difficult to make logical sense of a paradox.





The paradox is wanting (or feeling a need) to prove God exists. 


People seem to forget that Faith, is by definition a belief in something we can not prove, but that does not mean or imply that it is not real or true. 


Think of it like this; We know there are Police Officers, we see them on a regular basis, we know they will arrest us if they catch us committing a crime, but people still commit crimes.  Now, if a cop was constantly with you and you were overtly aware of his/her presence every second of every day, chances are you probably would not commit a crime. 


Now many people know God exists, many people truely believe he exists, and God is with us every second of every day but we don't see him sitting in the passenger seat, we don't see him walking with us, and for some (if not all of us) the lack of that physical presence allows us to sin.  It doesn't make us bad people or evil, it makes us Human.  It is the true challenge of our being, to be allowed to act of our own accord without God directly intervening in our lives, all the while knowing he is there.


Our own actions do not diminish the existence of God, no more than a criminal committing a crime would affect the existence of the Police.  The consequences of our actions are still our responsibility.


Yet, there is little I can do to convince another person that God exists, not in a definitive way.  I don't think it would matter though even if I could.  Think back to the Police analogy, unless that cop was practically holding our hands, people still going to steal, speed, cheat, etc....




Many Christians believe they do have proof that God exists. As Bomber mentioned, just the fact that we are alive and the sun rises in the morning is irrefutable proof. it would be impossible for life to exist without God, ergo there must be a God. The "proof"is just as valid as E=MC². Now the paradox is, why do these believers still sin? A scientist certainly wouldn't argue that the Sun revolves around the earth when it is a known scientific fact that it doesn't. Another example would involve electricity. We all know what happens if we stick a finger in a light socket. How many of us decide to stick a finger in a ligfht socket just because we have the ability and opportunity to do so?


The paradox is that if God truly does exist there is no such thing as free will.




You can't confuse physics with metaphysics, many people tried to create ontological arguments that proved God exists, many people refer to miracles of all varieties, but that 'Proof' is not scientific.  There will always be a desire to quantify or rationalize our beliefs, it is not a bad thing, but it does not encapsulate the entire belief system.


"the fact we are alive and the sun rises in the morning is irrefutable proof".  Yes, it is to some people.  That is an internal assessment, it is an ancedotal argument.  It can't be quantified, it is not knowledge a priori, perhaps it dwells with the sublime.  The fact is, even with an internal acceptance that God exists without question, our actions are still dictated by our own conscience, not by the will of God.  As I tried to point out with the Police analogy, just because we have Police, just because people know they are there, does not prevent them from committing crimes.  Using your reasoning, since people commit crimes the Police can not exist.


The analogy can be extended, a cop won't pull you over because you intend to speed (yes I know some people will argue this, but take it for what it is worth), they will wait for you to speed to give you a ticket.  If you speed and get into an accident, do you blame the police for not pulling you over before you sped?


All of these arguments become circular.  As I pointed out, by definition Faith is a belief in something that can not be proved.  Most of our lives, our society, our knowledge, in some way depends on faith.  Even the equation E=MC^2 requires us to have faith, simply put there are maybe 6 people on the planet that actually understand the Theory of Relativity and I doubt any of them are on this board.  You or me, if we had to prove that equation we could never do it.  We accept it because we know someone else has proved it. 


Believers still sin because we are Human.  It may sound like a cop out (pun intended) but we as humans do a lot of things we can't explain, that we don't understand, and know we shouldn't do (even if not a sin and it is just plain stupid). 




E=MC² proof...only 31 pages long.


On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies (1920 edition ... - Wikipedia

2 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 11:17PM #39
Yankee1954
Posts: 8,749

Dec 22, 2012 -- 10:14AM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 22, 2012 -- 2:15AM, Yankee1954 wrote:


Dec 21, 2012 -- 12:35PM, ArtVandelay wrote:


Dec 20, 2012 -- 9:41AM, yankeeoldfan wrote:


Just in case anyone listened the the Presidents speech at the CT. school, he mentioned God several times in that speech..



don't worry, as soon as a few months pass with no high profile multiple killings Obama will go back to ignoring God, BTW, since the killings last week almost as many blacks were murdered in Chicago (you know, the community that Obama organized, the GUN FREE community...)




Ah, the bi-polar Art. Something positive, something negative! Because you portray yourself as somewhat of an expert on God you should know God is in all of us, even the killer in Connecticut, and that God was in that school. But it's a better talking point for theRight to say the opposite.




Its still difficult for me to grasp the concept that a loving God allows these tragedies to happen. BUT, if you pray hard enough God might change His mind. Does God and Satan have some kind of deal that if not enough people pray to God he will let Satan have his way? That's some twisted theology.




I have thought about this many times. I don't know that there is an answer.

2 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 11:22PM #40
Yankee1954
Posts: 8,749

Dec 23, 2012 -- 5:45PM, ArtVandelay wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 4:02PM, 61in61 wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 11:52AM, bomberhojoe wrote:

It is Satan and the world's evils that tempt us and God has given us the freedom to choose. We can choose to love Him and love one another or to hate. We can also choose the gift of His Son and eternity with Him. May He bless those hurt by the CT tragedy and all of us this Christmas and in the days ahead.



A lot of these things I just don't grasp. I hear people who survive a tornado say how thankful they are that God spared their lives. Well...duh...if God did indeed spare them why didn't he just stop the tornado altogether and spare everyone the grief?


I can understand believing in God the creator, but this business of Him intervening in every aspect of everyone's life is kinda crazy. I just think things happen: God or Satan didn't have anything to do with it. Also, just because God exists doesn't mean that Satan exists. The universe is constantly creating and destroying. When our sun explodes and destroys the earth its not evil or the work of Satan, its just a force of nature. Similarly if someone kills someone its not necessarily the result of evil. Its just another event in the chain of life. Humans put the brand of right and wrong on an event but nature could care less. Fifty million people could be killed tomorrow at the hands of some individual and the sun will still shine for another 5 billion years or so.




if we listen to Algore and do what he asks of us the Earth will never end and rainbows and puppies will be plentiful for all eternity.....




Ridiculous post!

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