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The WORST Player Trades/Moves in MLB History
2 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2012 - 6:15PM #31
divo
Posts: 11

That is true but it still turned out to be an awful trade for the Sox. Cater played 3 seasons for Boston, 99 games at 1B, 67 as DH and 33 at 3B. Lyle went on to become one of the few relievers to win a Cy Young Award.

2 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 2:17PM #32
FW57Clipper51
Posts: 11,352

Dec 26, 2012 -- 6:15PM, divo wrote:


That is true but it still turned out to be an awful trade for the Sox. Cater played 3 seasons for Boston, 99 games at 1B, 67 as DH and 33 at 3B. Lyle went on to become one of the few relievers to win a Cy Young Award.





Any trade can bereviewed by hindsight, but at the time of the trade the sports media in both cities considered it to be helpful  deal to both clubs. Lyle came to the Yankees with a spring training pitching  ERA of 7.11. Yankees Manager Houk named him the team's bullpen closer. The Red Sox were happy to have Cater's bat in their daily lineup. The Yankees had Johnny Ellis and a future Ron Bloomberg for 1B.


 


Clipper

http://i50.tinypic.com/vfvbja.jpg


2 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 3:09PM #33
divo
Posts: 11

But the fact remains, Cater was never "in their daily lineup'. In 3 seasons he played played in less than 200 games for the Sox.

2 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 10:30AM #34
FW57Clipper51
Posts: 11,352

Dec 27, 2012 -- 3:09PM, divo wrote:


But the fact remains, Cater was never "in their daily lineup'. In 3 seasons he played played in less than 200 games for the Sox.





According to Baseball Reference web site for teams and the Baseball Encyclopedia, Danny Cater was the starting 1B for the 1972 Boston Red Sox. During the 1973-1974 AL seasons, he became a reserve infielder (1B/3B) and DH, when the Red Sox moved Yaz from the outfield to 1B. Cater was sold to the St. Louis Cardinals in 1975 and he retired from MLB after that season. As for the Cy Young Award, Sparky Lyle didn't win the award until the 1977 AL season, 5 years after the trade had been made. In the winter of 1972, before the Nettles trade was made with the Cleveland Indians, the Yankees offered Sparky Lyle in a trade for a young Philadelphia Phillies rookie 3B named Mike Schmidt, the Phillies front almost made the trade, but they changed their minds at the last moment, hence the Yankees went after Nettles.



Clipper




1972



1 C Carlton Fisk 24 131 514 457 74 134 28 9 22 61 5 2 52 83 .293 .370 .538 .909 162 246 11 4 1 0 6
2 1B Danny Cater 32 92 343 317 32 75 17 1 8 39 0 1 15 33 .237 .270 .372 .642 85 118 16 2 1 7 2
3 2B Doug Griffin 25 129 535 470 43 122 12 1 2 35 9 2 45 48 .260 .325 .302 .627 83 142 7 2 15 3 6
4 SS Luis Aparicio 38 110 474 436 47 112 26 3 3 39 3 3 26 28 .257 .299 .351 .649 88 153 8 2 5 5 0
5 3B Rico Petrocelli 29 147 607 521 62 125 15 2 15 75 0 1 78 91 .240 .339 .363 .702 104 189 8 2 2 4 9
6 LF Carl Yastrzemski* 32 125 535 455 70 120 18 2 12 68 5 4 67 44 .264 .357 .391 .748 118 178 13 4 0 9 3
7 CF Tommy Harper 31 144 641 556 92 141 29 2 14 49 25 7 67 104 .254 .341 .388 .730 112 216 4 9 5 4 1
8 RF Reggie Smith# 27 131 543 467 75 126 25 4 21 74 15 4 68 63 .270 .365 .475 .840 143 222 8 4 0 4 12

http://i50.tinypic.com/vfvbja.jpg


2 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 1:14PM #35
divo
Posts: 11

The same publication you quote shows that Cater started exactly 83 games at first base that year. Hardly what you would call the starting first baseman.

2 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 1:49PM #36
FW57Clipper51
Posts: 11,352

Dec 28, 2012 -- 1:14PM, divo wrote:


The same publication you quote shows that Cater started exactly 83 games at first base that year. Hardly what you would call the starting first baseman.




 Apparently he was considered to be the Red Sox starting 1B for that  1972 AL season. The transition for Yaz  at 1B started later in the season, plus in 1973 the DH would appear in the AL. Former Yankee Andy Kosco didn't play any 1B for the 1972 Red Sox, he was an outfielder, he had been obtained from the Angels.


Clipper


Looking at the 1972 Red Sox MLB  Roster


1B/ Games played


Danny Cater 90


Yaz 42


Duane Josephson 16


Bob Burda 15


Cecil Cooper 3


Phil  Gagliano 2



From Baseball Almanac



1972 Boston Red Sox  Most Games by Position

C  Carlton Fisk (131)
1B  Danny Cater (90)
2B  Doug Griffin (129)
3B  Rico Petrocelli (146)
SS  Luis Aparicio (109)
LF  Carl Yastrzemski (83)
CF  Tommy Harper (144)
RF  Reggie Smith (125)
   

http://i50.tinypic.com/vfvbja.jpg


2 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 2:09PM #37
divo
Posts: 11

All the rumored trades you mention are meaningless in this discussion. The fact remains it was a terrble trade for the Boston Red Sox. They traded a 28 year old Sparky Lyle, who in 5 seasons with them compiled an ERA of 2.80, for a 32 year old Danny Cater. They may have wanted him as their starting first baseman but that obviously didn't work out since as you say he was replaced by Yaz. He may have played in 90 games in 1972 but he started only 83 at first base. Lyle in his first season with the Yankees had a 9-5 record with a 1.92 ERA.

2 years ago  ::  Dec 29, 2012 - 2:08AM #38
FW57Clipper51
Posts: 11,352

Dec 28, 2012 -- 2:09PM, divo wrote:


All the rumored trades you mention are meaningless in this discussion. The fact remains it was a terrble trade for the Boston Red Sox. They traded a 28 year old Sparky Lyle, who in 5 seasons with them compiled an ERA of 2.80, for a 32 year old Danny Cater. They may have wanted him as their starting first baseman but that obviously didn't work out since as you say he was replaced by Yaz. He may have played in 90 games in 1972 but he started only 83 at first base. Lyle in his first season with the Yankees had a 9-5 record with a 1.92 ERA.




I found some background info from Red Sox and Yankees web history sites for why both teams made the trade, including a interview with Danny Cater looking back at the trade.


 During the 1971  MLB off season, the New York Yankees had acquired veteran 1B/OF Felipe Alou from the Oakland A's. Danny Cater, knows he is now expendable, expects his trade to made in the off season, not in Yankees 1972 spring training camp.


The New York Yankees need a bullpen closer for the 1972 AL season. They have 2 trade offers for 1B  Danny Cater


1. The Oakland A's offer reliever Darold Knowles.


2. The Boston Red Sox offer reliever Sparky Lyle.


The Boston Red Sox had traded their regular 1B George Scott to the Milwaukee Brewers for veteran CF Tommy Harper. They expected in the 1972 Red Sox Spring Training camp that rookie 1B Cecil Cooper would be ready to take over the regular 1B job, but spring training camp shows that he isn't MLB ready, so he is AAA bound for the 1972 baseball season. The team now needs a regular MLB 1B. Sparky Lyle and Red Sox Manager Eddie Kasko are not getting along, plus Sparky is having a very rough spring training,  getting hit hard and sporting a 7.11 ERA. The Boston front office decides that young reliever Bill Lee or veteran lefty Gary Peters can take over Lyle's spot in the Red Sox bullpen. Danny Cater has always hit well as a visiting batter against the Red Sox at Fenway Park. So the trade is made, the sports news media from both team's cities write it up as a good deal for both teams. Cater was move from starting 1B to keep Yaz's bat in the lineup at the end of the 1972 AL season. He was his back-up at 1B. The Red Sox were going through a team transition, future Red Sox stars Lynn, Cooper and Rice were still 2 seasons away.


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