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This team has overachieved ...
4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 9:53AM #121
bruner4329
Posts: 3,648

Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:47AM, 61in61 wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:30AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:23AM, yankeeoldfan wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:13AM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:20PM, davis2 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 2:53PM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 2:43PM, YankeeLoon wrote:

We were 9 games up in the loss column in late July. Anyone's preseason hopes or prognostications are completely irrelevant. This group has gagged away a promising season and allowed a group of showboat punks to embarrass us. If you find silver linings to this I applaud you. I do not applaud the team however. I'm ticked off.



Again, this team over-achieved in July ... they are coming down to earth and it is driving many of us crazy to watch ... hopefully they will turn it around again ... there is still time.



And the FO should have rewarded that overachievement with some help.




There's been a lot of generalities tossed about in this thread. So, Let me ask you, Davis. Specifically where or WHO over acheived this season...ARod excluded. I agree they shouldve/couldve gottne some help for the right "price" but wheres all the overachievement we've been reading about here. 




Over achieved ?? Maybe A-Rod and Tex over achieved from their past season or two, but both had been hurt and in all reality they should have put up numbers like they have .. Did anyone predict A-Rod would hit the way he did after being out of the game for almost two years, no, but the guy is a great athlete, and I believe from playing the game myself, hitting is the last thing to go, defense and foot speed seem to leave quicker with age.. Hitters get smarter with age, and they learn to cheat a little on the fastball, yet they become better hitters to a point as they get a little older.. The only thing I see in getting older and hitting are concerned, the leg speed decreases so a player won't leg out as many hits as he would of when he was younger.. Over Achieving still a question ?? Just my two cents...




No one expected this team to be 7 games up in July ... they over-achieved!  




I don't think you can say that they over achieved when not a single player is batting over .300, not a single player will get 100 rbis, and chances are no pitcher will even get 15 wins. Ellsbury is 30 points below his career ave. All of the other starters are at or below their career numbers. Gardner is the only starter having a better than average year. A-Rod might be the only player who exceeded expectations, but even he's a shell of his former self.




So Didi is having an expected year? Don't think anyone envisioned him hitting this well. Also ARod was left for dead by many before the season. No one predicted 30+ homers and 80-90 RBIs. On the other hand I think Gardner is having a typical year. Hot as a pistol, cold as ice on a rotating basis and he will be somewhere between .265-.275 when all is said and done. I think the biggest disappointment is Elsbury without a doubt. Headley has been OK but his defense is way below expectations. As for Drew I think he met my expectations. Thought he stunk and he has.

4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 10:25AM #122
Lola
Posts: 24,811
The moral of the story is.... You can'tell predict baseball.... susan. The games are NOT played on paper.... how many times have we seen it. I try not to put to much stock in what all the talking heads say in the beginning of the season. remember... We are the YANKEES!
4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 10:55AM #123
61in61
Posts: 26,516

Sep 14, 2015 -- 9:53AM, bruner4329 wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:47AM, 61in61 wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:30AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:23AM, yankeeoldfan wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:13AM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:20PM, davis2 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 2:53PM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 2:43PM, YankeeLoon wrote:

We were 9 games up in the loss column in late July. Anyone's preseason hopes or prognostications are completely irrelevant. This group has gagged away a promising season and allowed a group of showboat punks to embarrass us. If you find silver linings to this I applaud you. I do not applaud the team however. I'm ticked off.



Again, this team over-achieved in July ... they are coming down to earth and it is driving many of us crazy to watch ... hopefully they will turn it around again ... there is still time.



And the FO should have rewarded that overachievement with some help.




There's been a lot of generalities tossed about in this thread. So, Let me ask you, Davis. Specifically where or WHO over acheived this season...ARod excluded. I agree they shouldve/couldve gottne some help for the right "price" but wheres all the overachievement we've been reading about here. 




Over achieved ?? Maybe A-Rod and Tex over achieved from their past season or two, but both had been hurt and in all reality they should have put up numbers like they have .. Did anyone predict A-Rod would hit the way he did after being out of the game for almost two years, no, but the guy is a great athlete, and I believe from playing the game myself, hitting is the last thing to go, defense and foot speed seem to leave quicker with age.. Hitters get smarter with age, and they learn to cheat a little on the fastball, yet they become better hitters to a point as they get a little older.. The only thing I see in getting older and hitting are concerned, the leg speed decreases so a player won't leg out as many hits as he would of when he was younger.. Over Achieving still a question ?? Just my two cents...




No one expected this team to be 7 games up in July ... they over-achieved!  




I don't think you can say that they over achieved when not a single player is batting over .300, not a single player will get 100 rbis, and chances are no pitcher will even get 15 wins. Ellsbury is 30 points below his career ave. All of the other starters are at or below their career numbers. Gardner is the only starter having a better than average year. A-Rod might be the only player who exceeded expectations, but even he's a shell of his former self.




So Didi is having an expected year? Don't think anyone envisioned him hitting this well. Also ARod was left for dead by many before the season. No one predicted 30+ homers and 80-90 RBIs. On the other hand I think Gardner is having a typical year. Hot as a pistol, cold as ice on a rotating basis and he will be somewhere between .265-.275 when all is said and done. I think the biggest disappointment is Elsbury without a doubt. Headley has been OK but his defense is way below expectations. As for Drew I think he met my expectations. Thought he stunk and he has.




I said that A-Rod has exceeded expectations.


As for Didi, i think the consensus was that if he batted .250 and played good defense that would be a good year for him. He's batting .270 after a horrible 1st half. So if you combine his horrible first half and his great second half he's probably a little bit above expectations. headleyhas been disappointing on defense.


The point of my comment was that I don't think the team overachieved on a season long basis. Some guys had nice seasons like McCann and Tex, but their numbers are still below their career averages and of course Tex is done for the season so that's typical too.

4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 11:51AM #124
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 77,715

Sep 14, 2015 -- 9:10AM, 61in61 wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:50AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:47AM, 61in61 wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:30AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:23AM, yankeeoldfan wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:13AM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:20PM, davis2 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 2:53PM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 2:43PM, YankeeLoon wrote:

We were 9 games up in the loss column in late July. Anyone's preseason hopes or prognostications are completely irrelevant. This group has gagged away a promising season and allowed a group of showboat punks to embarrass us. If you find silver linings to this I applaud you. I do not applaud the team however. I'm ticked off.



Again, this team over-achieved in July ... they are coming down to earth and it is driving many of us crazy to watch ... hopefully they will turn it around again ... there is still time.



And the FO should have rewarded that overachievement with some help.




There's been a lot of generalities tossed about in this thread. So, Let me ask you, Davis. Specifically where or WHO over acheived this season...ARod excluded. I agree they shouldve/couldve gottne some help for the right "price" but wheres all the overachievement we've been reading about here. 




Over achieved ?? Maybe A-Rod and Tex over achieved from their past season or two, but both had been hurt and in all reality they should have put up numbers like they have .. Did anyone predict A-Rod would hit the way he did after being out of the game for almost two years, no, but the guy is a great athlete, and I believe from playing the game myself, hitting is the last thing to go, defense and foot speed seem to leave quicker with age.. Hitters get smarter with age, and they learn to cheat a little on the fastball, yet they become better hitters to a point as they get a little older.. The only thing I see in getting older and hitting are concerned, the leg speed decreases so a player won't leg out as many hits as he would of when he was younger.. Over Achieving still a question ?? Just my two cents...




No one expected this team to be 7 games up in July ... they over-achieved!  




I don't think you can say that they over achieved when not a single player is batting over .300, not a single player will get 100 rbis, and chances are no pitcher will even get 15 wins. Ellsbury is 30 points below his career ave. All of the other starters are at or below their career numbers. Gardner is the only starter having a better than average year. A-Rod might be the only player who exceeded expectations, but even he's a shell of his former self.




7 games above in July was over-achieved ... they have fallen down to earth a bit, and a lot of people are upset ... that's because of a ridiculous lead in July that no one ever expected in the first place.




You can't use that high-water mark to define the whole season, which is what you are doing. They were hot for about 2 weeks while the other divisional teams played about .500 ball. At the AS break the Yanks were only 8 games over .500. Since Aug 1 they are 20-20. From July 8 to July 19 they were 13-4. Outside of that hot streak they have been mostly mediocre.




Well, we won't agree ... but what's new about that ... LOL Wink

4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 11:57AM #125
qwik3457
Posts: 11,939

Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:34AM, 61in61 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 4:02PM, qwik3457 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 10:44AM, NYY32311 wrote:


OP is smoking some serious purple kush. Treading water in a lame division all year while getting their a** handed to them consistently by playoff bound teams is mediocrity unworthy of celebration. 


And please don't come with your - what about next year crap either; that slogan was trademarked by the Cubs...in the 20's...1920's..




AL East isn't lame at all; in fact, it's the 2nd best division, by cumulative record, in MLB.


And they haven't been having their *** handed to them consistently by playoff bound teams; they're getting beaten by the Jays, who might be the best team in baseball. By a lot.


They are now, 5-11 vs. the Jays.


Against all other teams currently in the playoff picture:


4-2 vs. the Royals; 3-4 vs. the Rangers, 3-4 vs. the Astros, and 2-1 vs. the Mets. That's 12-11 against other playoff teams.




So that means they are 17-22 against the better teams. Not very impressive. Why do you always make excuses for the shortcomings of this team? Its like you are Cashman's PR man. The fact remains that they didn't improve at the trade deadline when all the other contenders did improve. They had a 7 game lead. They might not have a 7 game lead that late in the season for another decade or even in our lifetime.




No, it means they're 5-11 against the Jays, and 12-11 against other playoff teams, which is what I said. 


The post I replied to said they're consistently getting their rear ends handed to them by playoff bound teams. I showed that's not true, or at least, it hasn't been true for any team other than the Jays. Why do you dispute this and asume I'm doing it to defend Cashman? There's no evidence of that at all.


Nobody makes moves with the idea that this could be the only time the teams contends for a decade or even in our lifetime. They make moves, or don't make them, based on what they think the moves will do this season, and in the near-future. There are very few moves in baseball that are judged for their impact over 10 years (the A-Rod and Cano signings being rare exceptions).


I warned about the Jays at the trade deadline; said I was worried about them. People mocked that worry at the time. I also said they did nothing major at the deadline, and that the team was going to have to live with that decision. I have been saying for months that Mets stood a real chance of taking over the town for a period of years; all they had to do was fix their offense a little. They've done so, and are now also probably better than the Yanks, maybe for years to come. 


In any event, to solely blame Cashman for this is silly, because, as I've pointed out in other threads, Hal Steinbrenner is the one who's closed the money vault, preventing them from signing big money free agents for the time being, preventing them from making improvements by picking up bad contracts like the one Shields has. He's publicly stated this, and he also publicly stated that he supported not trading the top prospects in the trading market just passed. I've also said that this might be necessary, that they might have to take a down year or two, as part of the long road back to building an elite club.


The teams that made big moves; the Price trade, the Hamels trade, the Cespides trade, the Cueto trade, the Leake trade...all the teams acquiring the veterans traded one or more of their best prospects, usually one or more prospects in someone's top 50 or top 100 prospects. The Yankees wouldn't; and that's why no major help was acquired, and the only move they did make was a look-to-the-future move for Ackley.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 12:51PM #126
JoeGNJ
Posts: 15,926

Sep 14, 2015 -- 11:57AM, qwik3457 wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 8:34AM, 61in61 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 4:02PM, qwik3457 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 10:44AM, NYY32311 wrote:


OP is smoking some serious purple kush. Treading water in a lame division all year while getting their a** handed to them consistently by playoff bound teams is mediocrity unworthy of celebration. 


And please don't come with your - what about next year crap either; that slogan was trademarked by the Cubs...in the 20's...1920's..




AL East isn't lame at all; in fact, it's the 2nd best division, by cumulative record, in MLB.


And they haven't been having their *** handed to them consistently by playoff bound teams; they're getting beaten by the Jays, who might be the best team in baseball. By a lot.


They are now, 5-11 vs. the Jays.


Against all other teams currently in the playoff picture:


4-2 vs. the Royals; 3-4 vs. the Rangers, 3-4 vs. the Astros, and 2-1 vs. the Mets. That's 12-11 against other playoff teams.




So that means they are 17-22 against the better teams. Not very impressive. Why do you always make excuses for the shortcomings of this team? Its like you are Cashman's PR man. The fact remains that they didn't improve at the trade deadline when all the other contenders did improve. They had a 7 game lead. They might not have a 7 game lead that late in the season for another decade or even in our lifetime.




No, it means they're 5-11 against the Jays, and 12-11 against other playoff teams, which is what I said. 


The post I replied to said they're consistently getting their rear ends handed to them by playoff bound teams. I showed that's not true, or at least, it hasn't been true for any team other than the Jays. Why do you dispute this and asume I'm doing it to defend Cashman? There's no evidence of that at all.


Nobody makes moves with the idea that this could be the only time the teams contends for a decade or even in our lifetime. They make moves, or don't make them, based on what they think the moves will do this season, and in the near-future. There are very few moves in baseball that are judged for their impact over 10 years (the A-Rod and Cano signings being rare exceptions).


I warned about the Jays at the trade deadline; said I was worried about them. People mocked that worry at the time. I also said they did nothing major at the deadline, and that the team was going to have to live with that decision. I have been saying for months that Mets stood a real chance of taking over the town for a period of years; all they had to do was fix their offense a little. They've done so, and are now also probably better than the Yanks, maybe for years to come. 


In any event, to solely blame Cashman for this is silly, because, as I've pointed out in other threads, Hal Steinbrenner is the one who's closed the money vault, preventing them from signing big money free agents for the time being, preventing them from making improvements by picking up bad contracts like the one Shields has. He's publicly stated this, and he also publicly stated that he supported not trading the top prospects in the trading market just passed. I've also said that this might be necessary, that they might have to take a down year or two, as part of the long road back to building an elite club.


The teams that made big moves; the Price trade, the Hamels trade, the Cespides trade, the Cueto trade, the Leake trade...all the teams acquiring the veterans traded one or more of their best prospects, usually one or more prospects in someone's top 50 or top 100 prospects. The Yankees wouldn't; and that's why no major help was acquired, and the only move they did make was a look-to-the-future move for Ackley.




That should give every fan the shivers!

JoeGNJ - 2Timothy 4:7 - Acts 20:24
4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 1:11PM #127
TheStripes
Posts: 2,168

I feel the Yankees are playing on house money. Sure I was disappointed with the BJ series. This team has overcome quite a bit this season and building blocks for a solid foundation going foward.



 All in all I'm very happy with the season.



Go Yankees!!

Salute to the USMC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1gTdbL83e4

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

and with his stripes we are healed
4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 1:17PM #128
newinn
Posts: 34,031

Sep 14, 2015 -- 1:11PM, TheStripes wrote:


I feel the Yankees are playing on house money. Sure I was disappointed with the BJ series. This team has overcome quite a bit this season and building blocks for a solid foundation going foward.



 All in all I'm very happy with the season.



Go Yankees!!




My feelings also Stripes

4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 1:38PM #129
luvdayanks
Posts: 27,262

Sep 14, 2015 -- 1:17PM, newinn wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 1:11PM, TheStripes wrote:


I feel the Yankees are playing on house money. Sure I was disappointed with the BJ series. This team has overcome quite a bit this season and building blocks for a solid foundation going foward.



 All in all I'm very happy with the season.



Go Yankees!!




My feelings also Stripes





I think a lot of us here agreed, New, that this team at the start of the season was an 85-88 win team with an outside shot at the playoffs if all went well. Euphoria set in, at least with me, when they had a 7 game lead but the reality was everyone got on a hot streak together and then they came back down to their level as expected with not a lot of talent to carry them, and then injuries to Tex, Eovaldi and Ellsbury thrown in the mix. It's been a roller coaster ride and I said it before, overall the team is too inconsistent in every aspect of the game to go deep in the playoffs, but stranger things have happened. 


With all the complaining about Cashman and Girardi and Drew and others, they're in a better place than a lot of teams considering what they've had to work with.  To all the myopic Girardi haters, they should take a look at this lineup compared to Toronto and be thankful he has them 3 1/2 games behind a much more talented team, and 4 up in the wild card. IMO Girardi deserves some serious consideration for MOY.

4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2015 - 2:04PM #130
newinn
Posts: 34,031

Sep 14, 2015 -- 1:38PM, luvdayanks wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 1:17PM, newinn wrote:


Sep 14, 2015 -- 1:11PM, TheStripes wrote:


I feel the Yankees are playing on house money. Sure I was disappointed with the BJ series. This team has overcome quite a bit this season and building blocks for a solid foundation going foward.



 All in all I'm very happy with the season.



Go Yankees!!




My feelings also Stripes





I think a lot of us here agreed, New, that this team at the start of the season was an 85-88 win team with an outside shot at the playoffs if all went well. Euphoria set in, at least with me, when they had a 7 game lead but the reality was everyone got on a hot streak together and then they came back down to their level as expected with not a lot of talent to carry them, and then injuries to Tex, Eovaldi and Ellsbury thrown in the mix. It's been a roller coaster ride and I said it before, overall the team is too inconsistent in every aspect of the game to go deep in the playoffs, but stranger things have happened. 


With all the complaining about Cashman and Girardi and Drew and others, they're in a better place than a lot of teams considering what they've had to work with.  To all the myopic Girardi haters, they should take a look at this lineup compared to Toronto and be thankful he has them 3 1/2 games behind a much more talented team, and 4 up in the wild card. IMO Girardi deserves some serious consideration for MOY.




As happy as I was when they hit that high water mark of being 7 up I was never sold they could sustain. Tanka, Tex and Arod certainly exceeded my expectations. Tanaka pitched through what I thought would be a likely season ending injury. Didi had had a better season then most thought he would so I think it's reasonable to think this team overacheived especially in getting the type of prduction from the middle of the order  that we got. I certainly agree Girardi deserves consideration for MOY. I think his last 2 years have been his best. Oh the also got a good year from an old injury prone Beltran. I'm excited for this teams future

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