Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 16 of 18  •  Prev 1 ... 13 14 15 16 17 18 Next
This team has overachieved ...
4 years ago  ::  Sep 15, 2015 - 9:00AM #151
bruner4329
Posts: 3,648


Sep 14, 2015 -- 2:36PM, 61in61 wrote:







   I think we agree, but for the sake of argument, in 2017 is the 3rd baseman still Chase Headley ? Is the left fielder still Brett Gardner ? Is Jacoby Ellsbury still in center and is Brian McCann still the catcher ? If Bird is at first, do you think he will have a better season than Tex did in 2015 ? Will we have a DH who produces more than A Rod did in 2015 ? Do you think that either Betances or Miller will be better in 2017 ? Is Tanaka's arm going to be more durable ?


   The problem with this team is that so many of its best players are at their peak or on the decline. The farm system has improved...but it is not going to replace all the guys I listed. And even when the contracts of Tex, Beltran and even Sabathia and A Rod come off the books, there is little assurance that guys of similar stature will be available on the free agent market.


    It is usually easier to describe a problem than develop a solution. Trading everyone in an attempt to win in 2015 was not the answer. But I understand the anguish of lots of fans after this miserable series with Toronto.




In some cases this year we have established a few building blocks but there are still gapping holes to fill. I think Eovaldi, Didi, Bird and Severino are a good foundation.  Murphy has proven himself to be a good ML catcher with a future and obviously Betances in the pen is solid. After that there are still question marks. You mention the contracts expiring and the challenge to replace those players down the road. Our outfield prospects seem all alike as Gardner clones except for Judge who struggled this year. IMO he needs a solid year in AAA in 2016 to get him back on track otherwise questions will linger. If Elsbury and Gardner are still manning the outfield then we need a change of pace as the 3rd outfielder. Sanchez may be a viable prospect but there is no room for him on this team. May need to trade him to fill another hole. Pitching wise assuming Tanaka stays healthy, I am comfortable with Tanaka, Eovaldi and Serverino in the rotation. CC needs to be replaced at some point and quite frankly I prefer to have only 1 of the 2 in Pineda and Nova. Mentally they seem to wilt too often. I think there is a need for another starter. I like Warren in the pen as I am not impressed with these AAA arms we have brought up. To me I will never trust Mitchell as I think he has control issues and is not mentally tough. His minor league career has shown that he has big control issues.As for 2B we have no replacement. If Ackley was brought in as an experiment for next season we are talking naother roll of the dice here although to me his bat seems light years better than Drew or Ryan in a small sample so far even though his average is still mediocre. I hate to roll the dice again at a key position. Refsnyder to me at minimum is back at Scranton next year if not traded this offseason.


Point is they may need to trade some of their prospects such as Sancez to fill some of the holes at positions where we do not have heir apparents.


4 years ago  ::  Sep 15, 2015 - 11:08PM #152
davis2
Posts: 17,478

Sep 15, 2015 -- 9:00AM, bruner4329 wrote:



Sep 14, 2015 -- 2:36PM, 61in61 wrote:







   I think we agree, but for the sake of argument, in 2017 is the 3rd baseman still Chase Headley ? Is the left fielder still Brett Gardner ? Is Jacoby Ellsbury still in center and is Brian McCann still the catcher ? If Bird is at first, do you think he will have a better season than Tex did in 2015 ? Will we have a DH who produces more than A Rod did in 2015 ? Do you think that either Betances or Miller will be better in 2017 ? Is Tanaka's arm going to be more durable ?


   The problem with this team is that so many of its best players are at their peak or on the decline. The farm system has improved...but it is not going to replace all the guys I listed. And even when the contracts of Tex, Beltran and even Sabathia and A Rod come off the books, there is little assurance that guys of similar stature will be available on the free agent market.


    It is usually easier to describe a problem than develop a solution. Trading everyone in an attempt to win in 2015 was not the answer. But I understand the anguish of lots of fans after this miserable series with Toronto.




In some cases this year we have established a few building blocks but there are still gapping holes to fill. I think Eovaldi, Didi, Bird and Severino are a good foundation.  Murphy has proven himself to be a good ML catcher with a future and obviously Betances in the pen is solid. After that there are still question marks. You mention the contracts expiring and the challenge to replace those players down the road. Our outfield prospects seem all alike as Gardner clones except for Judge who struggled this year. IMO he needs a solid year in AAA in 2016 to get him back on track otherwise questions will linger. If Elsbury and Gardner are still manning the outfield then we need a change of pace as the 3rd outfielder. Sanchez may be a viable prospect but there is no room for him on this team. May need to trade him to fill another hole. Pitching wise assuming Tanaka stays healthy, I am comfortable with Tanaka, Eovaldi and Serverino in the rotation. CC needs to be replaced at some point and quite frankly I prefer to have only 1 of the 2 in Pineda and Nova. Mentally they seem to wilt too often. I think there is a need for another starter. I like Warren in the pen as I am not impressed with these AAA arms we have brought up. To me I will never trust Mitchell as I think he has control issues and is not mentally tough. His minor league career has shown that he has big control issues.As for 2B we have no replacement. If Ackley was brought in as an experiment for next season we are talking naother roll of the dice here although to me his bat seems light years better than Drew or Ryan in a small sample so far even though his average is still mediocre. I hate to roll the dice again at a key position. Refsnyder to me at minimum is back at Scranton next year if not traded this offseason.


Point is they may need to trade some of their prospects such as Sancez to fill some of the holes at positions where we do not have heir apparents.




That is part of the function of a farm system, Cashman and Hal need to understand that. Use your surpluses to fill needs...

4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2015 - 10:56PM #153
laurenfrances
Posts: 36,817

Lets not forget this thread...bumped

4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2015 - 10:57PM #154
YankeeLoon
Posts: 17,903
It's all bullsht. Anyone happy about this collapse is Pollyanna.
4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2015 - 11:40PM #155
jmirinhiding
Posts: 18

MLB was WIDE FREAKING OPEN this year - do SOMETHING and give your team a chance. Because this was a year it was worth taking a shot. Just do anything, wake up from the damn coma and do something at either deadline. It's total BS that this team couldn't have been improved without trading Bird/Severino/Judge. This team has such weaknesses that improvements were just begging to be made. 

When we're not even close to the playoffs the next two years, when Boston and Baltimore have better seasons and represent much more of an obstacle, think of the fact that Hal and Cashman couldn't be bothered to do ANYTHING to improve this team. 


I'll never spend another dime on this team until I believe onwership actually gives a damn. 

4 years ago  ::  Sep 19, 2015 - 4:57AM #156
qwik3457
Posts: 11,935

Sep 18, 2015 -- 10:57PM, YankeeLoon wrote:

It's all bullsht. Anyone happy about this collapse is Pollyanna.



I'm not happy about it.


On the other hand, I said before the season that I expected them to win 87-90 games this year, and be in contention for a Wild Card, and it looks like that's what's going to happen.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
4 years ago  ::  Sep 19, 2015 - 7:57AM #157
YankeeLoon
Posts: 17,903
Sometimes I think some of you would rather be "right" about your prognostications than see this team actually win.  I wish I could have a gee golly aw shucks attitude about this top to bottom UNDERACHIEVING MESS.
4 years ago  ::  Sep 19, 2015 - 9:05AM #158
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 77,709

Sep 19, 2015 -- 7:57AM, YankeeLoon wrote:

Sometimes I think some of you would rather be "right" about your prognostications than see this team actually win. I wish I could have a gee golly aw shucks attitude about this top to bottom UNDERACHIEVING MESS.



No one wants to be right about losing ... it's just that the team is what the team is ... and most of us knew that going into the season ... I think even you did ... but this team has a way of giving you real hope for the best ... and then the let down is much bigger.

4 years ago  ::  Sep 19, 2015 - 10:33AM #159
Boys of Autumn
Posts: 86

[/quote]


I've watched the Yankees through thick and thin for 50 years ... so I don't need anyone telling me what we're about ... but if we can't make it this season, I will still be grateful for watching a good season of baseball.


[/quote]

I've followed the Yankees since the 50's.  I like the way you think, Mo, and agree wholeheartedly!  Love your posts!  


[/quote]


Thank you. Smile


[/quote]



Mo, I respect that you've defended your position so many times in this thread but I completely disagree.  


I have been a Yankee fan since watching Reggie deposit HR#3 into "the black" during the '77 WS.  I am always optimistic the team will find a way to win....and oftentimes discouraged when the team cannot meet my lofty expecxtations.  Regardless, I look at this team and, in typical Yankee fashion, I see a roster filled with name-brand players at almost every position.  And with salaries to match!  This team SHOULD contend no matter what the media "experts" say in the preseason.  


I recognize the Yankees are an older team and have had their share of injuries, but I feel as though they've been perpetual underperformers for much of the past decade.  To me, the whole has not been greater than the sum of its parts.  So, with all due respect, I find it puzzling that some posters are willing to lavish such praise onto Cashman and Girardi.  In my opinion, the Yankee teams for the past several years have been no more competitive than those we had during the '80's when there was a revolving door of GM's and managers.  


Regardless who the GM or manager is, there are going to be good decisions and bad decisions.  I don't expect either of them to be perfect.  Still, Cashman and Girardi have been given more resources than most and, for the better part of their respective reigns, the team has been nothing special.  


Cashman took over a championship-caliber team and, as the roster began to turn over, he proceeded to outspend everyone else over the next 15 years and all we have to show for it is one championship and too many first-round playoff exits.   Simple statistics would seem to suggest to me that if you have the highest salaried roster then you should be able to make the playoffs, and if you can do this often enough then you are likely going to win the world series at least one of those years.  In other words, he's done nothing special.


Regarding Girardi, I don't offer any criticisms of his management but the team has appeared undiscipled and passionless for much of his tenure.  I can never remember a season where I have seen so many routine fly balls drop between outfielders.  And his teams never seem willing to do the little things it takes to win some ballgames.  Perhaps this is a product of the roster that Cashman has constructed and the blame reverts back to him.  I don't know. Still, Girardi has to take some responsibility for the way his team plays on the field.  And, in fairness, we know there are others involved in the organization's decision making besides these two men.


The bottom line is that I believe its time to stop making excuses and its time to start making some substantial organizational changes.


4 years ago  ::  Sep 19, 2015 - 12:08PM #160
JoeGNJ
Posts: 15,926

Sep 19, 2015 -- 10:33AM, Boys of Autumn wrote:




I've watched the Yankees through thick and thin for 50 years ... so I don't need anyone telling me what we're about ... but if we can't make it this season, I will still be grateful for watching a good season of baseball.




I've followed the Yankees since the 50's.  I like the way you think, Mo, and agree wholeheartedly!  Love your posts!  




Thank you. 




Mo, I respect that you've defended your position so many times in this thread but I completely disagree.  


I have been a Yankee fan since watching Reggie deposit HR#3 into "the black" during the '77 WS.  I am always optimistic the team will find a way to win....and oftentimes discouraged when the team cannot meet my lofty expecxtations.  Regardless, I look at this team and, in typical Yankee fashion, I see a roster filled with name-brand players at almost every position.  And with salaries to match!  This team SHOULD contend no matter what the media "experts" say in the preseason.  


I recognize the Yankees are an older team and have had their share of injuries, but I feel as though they've been perpetual underperformers for much of the past decade.  To me, the whole has not been greater than the sum of its parts.  So, with all due respect, I find it puzzling that some posters are willing to lavish such praise onto Cashman and Girardi.  In my opinion, the Yankee teams for the past several years have been no more competitive than those we had during the '80's when there was a revolving door of GM's and managers.  


Regardless who the GM or manager is, there are going to be good decisions and bad decisions.  I don't expect either of them to be perfect.  Still, Cashman and Girardi have been given more resources than most and, for the better part of their respective reigns, the team has been nothing special.  


Cashman took over a championship-caliber team and, as the roster began to turn over, he proceeded to outspend everyone else over the next 15 years and all we have to show for it is one championship and too many first-round playoff exits.   Simple statistics would seem to suggest to me that if you have the highest salaried roster then you should be able to make the playoffs, and if you can do this often enough then you are likely going to win the world series at least one of those years.  In other words, he's done nothing special.


Regarding Girardi, I don't offer any criticisms of his management but the team has appeared undiscipled and passionless for much of his tenure.  I can never remember a season where I have seen so many routine fly balls drop between outfielders.  And his teams never seem willing to do the little things it takes to win some ballgames.  Perhaps this is a product of the roster that Cashman has constructed and the blame reverts back to him.  I don't know. Still, Girardi has to take some responsibility for the way his team plays on the field.  And, in fairness, we know there are others involved in the organization's decision making besides these two men.


The bottom line is that I believe its time to stop making excuses and its time to start making some substantial organizational changes.





Tough to argue against ^^^^^

JoeGNJ - 2Timothy 4:7 - Acts 20:24
Page 16 of 18  •  Prev 1 ... 13 14 15 16 17 18 Next
Jump Menu:
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing

Yankees Forum