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I am not about to give this Yankee Team a Pass. Where is the Pride?
4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:18AM #21
NW
Posts: 13,163

Sep 13, 2015 -- 10:14AM, qwik3457 wrote:


The reasons why the Yanks did not go after top pitchers in the off-season are well known: they didn't want to spend the money.


The reasons why they didn't go after any of the top pitchers at the trade deadline are also well known: they didn't want to spend the top prospects in their system, or tear their bullpen in half.


Both of these stands were approved by Hal Steinbrenner in public declarations. 


So maybe Hal will fire himself.


But he won't. They are trying to rebuild along lines laid down by the team's owner and managing partner. 




The thing people fail to understand is that the Yankees made their move.  They brought up Severino, who had been better than any of the big name pitchers until Friday night.  Also, Tulo, outside of the first 2 weeks, really hadn't done much for the Jays and was actually moved down in the order.  Ben Revere has actually been a bigger pickup.


Now, if you look at the Yankees, who were already a slight underdog on paper prior to the deadline, the did bring up Severino but they also lost Eovaldi, which now puts the Jays at advantage by getting price.  Tulo was a wash over new and improved Didi but the Yanks lost their most productive hitter due to an accident and replaced him with a good, but not great, rookie who has won us a couple of games with his bat but also lost a couple with his glove.


The Yankees were due to lose ground to the Jays regardless because they are the better team on paper.  The reason that it's been such a spiraling fall isn't because of the moves that the Jays made or the ones the Yankees didn't, it's because of the things that happened and the lack of production of the guys that are being paid $13-22M to produce at the top of the order.

4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:21AM #22
laurenfrances
Posts: 33,409

Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:14AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:13AM, BW26 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 10:46AM, NYY32311 wrote:


More appropriate question - where is the talent?


They are getting their a**es handed to them by a team with talent.




let's  face it . When a team scores  5 runs in the first game and 7 in the second game , that should be enough to win. Blame the pitchers . They are the ones who spit the bit.


Not  faulting Severino. He was due to have a  bad  game? But, Nova and Pineda? At this point  I wish they would get  traded in the off season. But, the  question would be who replaces them ? And we all want CC out of the rotation , so trading either one of these  guys is unlikely  unless Hal caves and  signs Price or Cueto  or they find another diamond in the rough like Eovaldi .




Agree, these losses were on the pitchers.


I would trade Nova in the off-season ... still think Pineda can get it together.




Not making excuses for Nova, but he recently came back for TJ surgery and it takes time to fully get it back into gear.  Look at Harvey...Granted he's much better than Nova, he's certainly not the pitcher he was last season.  Mets are giving him 10 days off prior to his next start.  Which would be with our Yankees...argh....

4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:23AM #23
BigGuy
Posts: 66,015

Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:13AM, Paterson wrote:



   I think we discounted the loss of Texeira when Bird showed up and looked so good, but it isn't easy to replace a guy who some folks thought would get at least a little MVP love this year. We all know that baseball goes in cycles and streaks, but we also know that there are a very few guys who are going to hit more than 30 home runs this year and Tex was well on his way to 40. This lousy play is not 100% due to the loss of one guy but this lineup looks very manageable without him.  





Huge loss for the offense. You don't lose your biggest run producer and not feel some efects. Unfortunately, the pitching has had lots of issues too. 

"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:23AM #24
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 75,170

Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:21AM, laurenfrances wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:14AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:13AM, BW26 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 10:46AM, NYY32311 wrote:


More appropriate question - where is the talent?


They are getting their a**es handed to them by a team with talent.




let's  face it . When a team scores  5 runs in the first game and 7 in the second game , that should be enough to win. Blame the pitchers . They are the ones who spit the bit.


Not  faulting Severino. He was due to have a  bad  game? But, Nova and Pineda? At this point  I wish they would get  traded in the off season. But, the  question would be who replaces them ? And we all want CC out of the rotation , so trading either one of these  guys is unlikely  unless Hal caves and  signs Price or Cueto  or they find another diamond in the rough like Eovaldi .




Agree, these losses were on the pitchers.


I would trade Nova in the off-season ... still think Pineda can get it together.




Not making excuses for Nova, but he recently came back for TJ surgery and it takes time to fully get it back into gear.  Look at Harvey...Granted he's much better than Nova, he's certainly not the pitcher he was last season.  Mets are giving him 10 days off prior to his next start.  Which would be with our Yankees...argh....




Well you are  making excuses for Nova ... but that's okay ... it's a good point ... still think if I had to choose between him and Pineda to be traded, he would be the one I would trade.

4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:25AM #25
BigGuy
Posts: 66,015

Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:14AM, Max wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 10:50AM, BigGuy wrote:


I didn't expect them to give the farm away at the trade deadline to add anybody big. They were in 1st place on July 29th by 7 games. That's a pretty nice lead in a pretty poor division. Toronto made the big moves and they've paid off,  bigt-time for them. I'm ****ed they've played so poorly the 2nd half the year. I didn't expect them to win the division this year, and I doubt anybody else here did either. I did expect them to contend for a wildcard, and that's what they're doing. Still, I'm ****ed they've probably blown the divison because of lousy play. They've beaten Toronto 1 game this year in the their home ballpark. That's ridiculous, and losing 5 of 7 to a last place Cleveland team didn't help either. 




I didn't know what it would get the Yankees but I figured they would win 85 games this season. The Yankees not defeating the Jays more at home is like you said ridiculous. Yes, they should have dominated the Indians but also the slumping Orioles too. 




I figured in the 85-88 range before the season. Thanks for reminding me of the O's. That only ****es me off more. 

"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:25AM #26
BW26
Posts: 7,647

Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:18AM, vdfebduderocks wrote:


i'm ****ed hal has been a cheapskate with regards to international free agents over the years.  Give me Abreu or Puig on this team and they'd do wonders




Dodgers want to dump Puig  because of his bad attitude. Abreu , yes they should have signed him. But Tex is here and then we have Bird.

 


Positive anything is better than negative nothing

YANKEES   RULE ,  METS  DROOL
4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:26AM #27
BigGuy
Posts: 66,015

Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:23AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:21AM, laurenfrances wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:14AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:13AM, BW26 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 10:46AM, NYY32311 wrote:


More appropriate question - where is the talent?


They are getting their a**es handed to them by a team with talent.




let's  face it . When a team scores  5 runs in the first game and 7 in the second game , that should be enough to win. Blame the pitchers . They are the ones who spit the bit.


Not  faulting Severino. He was due to have a  bad  game? But, Nova and Pineda? At this point  I wish they would get  traded in the off season. But, the  question would be who replaces them ? And we all want CC out of the rotation , so trading either one of these  guys is unlikely  unless Hal caves and  signs Price or Cueto  or they find another diamond in the rough like Eovaldi .




Agree, these losses were on the pitchers.


I would trade Nova in the off-season ... still think Pineda can get it together.




Not making excuses for Nova, but he recently came back for TJ surgery and it takes time to fully get it back into gear.  Look at Harvey...Granted he's much better than Nova, he's certainly not the pitcher he was last season.  Mets are giving him 10 days off prior to his next start.  Which would be with our Yankees...argh....




Well you are  making excuses for Nova ... but that's okay ... it's a good point ... still think if I had to choose between him and Pineda to be traded, he would be the one I would trade.




Nova could be dealt in the offseason anyway. He's a FA after next year. 

"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:44AM #28
Paterson
Posts: 6,120

Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:21AM, laurenfrances wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:14AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:13AM, BW26 wrote:


Sep 13, 2015 -- 10:46AM, NYY32311 wrote:


More appropriate question - where is the talent?


They are getting their a**es handed to them by a team with talent.




let's  face it . When a team scores  5 runs in the first game and 7 in the second game , that should be enough to win. Blame the pitchers . They are the ones who spit the bit.


Not  faulting Severino. He was due to have a  bad  game? But, Nova and Pineda? At this point  I wish they would get  traded in the off season. But, the  question would be who replaces them ? And we all want CC out of the rotation , so trading either one of these  guys is unlikely  unless Hal caves and  signs Price or Cueto  or they find another diamond in the rough like Eovaldi .




Agree, these losses were on the pitchers.


I would trade Nova in the off-season ... still think Pineda can get it together.




Not making excuses for Nova, but he recently came back for TJ surgery and it takes time to fully get it back into gear.  Look at Harvey...Granted he's much better than Nova, he's certainly not the pitcher he was last season.  Mets are giving him 10 days off prior to his next start.  Which would be with our Yankees...argh....




   Your point on the Nova return from TJ is very valid. Nova is not going to be 100% unitl next year. And when he is 100%, he is not a top of the rotation guy. The Yankees have to figure out a way to get more innings our of their starters, or how to configure their roster so they can carry an extra pitcher. And then, they need to find more depth in the bullpen. 

4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:53AM #29
TonyG4
Posts: 2,771
I said this before, and I will say it again, at this time in the season when you are fighting for 1st place and a playoff spot and you are in the middle of Sept. you play every game  to win like its game 7 in a playoff series. You don't rest your set up man, and your closer in the 8th and 9th inning when you are up a run, and bring in rookie unknowns with on the job training just because you want to rest your best. That's BS talking points, play the game the way it was meant to be played, play to win the game you are playing now, who the hell knows what's going to happen tomorrow. 1 inning at a time, one game at a time worry about now. You are playing the Oriels and in the first inning Buck bunts back to back to set up guys in scoring position and play some small ball, and he produces 3 runs.

Later on in the game in the early innings its still 3 zip, and we have men on 1st and second, no one out with the number 9 batter coming up, a call up from the minors and you let him swing away instead of moving the runners over to scoring positions and putting runners on 2nd and 3rd with the top of the order coming up? Then in another game we have Drew not knowing how to handle a throw from 3rd base to turn over the double play because he doesn't know how to position is glove and feet on a throw like that. And in a game against Toronto we have no out with the two fastest runners on the Yankees on 1st and second, and there is a wild pitch and Ellsbury goes to 3rd and Gardner stands there on first base with his finger up his A$$ and doesn't move to second and in scoring position in the bottom of the 8th inning when we are down by only 1 run. Next batter McCann gets a base hit and Ellsbury scores and Garnder can only go to 3rd base when he could have scored the go ahead run if he went to second on that wild pitch. And we would have won that game, when Miller retired the sides in the 9th. How many big games has this team lost by making these type of dumb and stupid mistakes.

And I didn't expect them to give away our top prospect at the trade deadline, I expected them to put their money back on the field of play with the free agent available pitchers and players. Baseball is big business today, and that is why George was the best, and got the best when they were available, because he was a great business man, and made his money back by putting his money back on the field of play.

Like I said, I am not about to give this team a pass. Tell it like it is. I don't want to hear these BS Talking points.  
Willie, Mickey and the Duke, Now That Was Baseball in NY.

THE ORIGINAL SIX IN THE NHL, OLD TIME HOCKEY,

THE WAY THE GAME WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED:

LETS GO RANGERS. LETS GO YANKEES
4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2015 - 11:56AM #30
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 75,170

Sep 13, 2015 -- 11:53AM, TonyG4 wrote:


I said this before, and I will say it again, at this time in the season when you are fighting for 1st place and a playoff spot and you are in the middle of Sept. you play every game  to win like its game 7 in a playoff series. You don't rest your set up man, and your closer in the 8th and 9th inning when you are up a run, and bring in rookie unknowns with on the job training just because you want to rest your best. That's BS talking points, play the game the way it was meant to be played, play to win the game you are playing now, who the hell knows what's going to happen tomorrow. 1 inning at a time, one game at a time worry about now. You are playing the Oriels and in the first inning Buck bunts back to back to set up guys in scoring position and play some small ball, and he produces 3 runs.

Later on in the game in the early innings its still 3 zip, and we have men on 1st and second, no one out with the number 9 batter coming up, a call up from the minors and you let him swing away instead of moving the runners over to scoring positions and putting runners on 2nd and 3rd with the top of the order coming up? Then in another game we have Drew not knowing how to handle a throw from 3rd base to turn over the double play because he doesn't know how to position is glove and feet on a throw like that. And in a game against Toronto we have no out with the two fastest runners on the Yankees on 1st and second, and there is a wild pitch and Ellsbury goes to 3rd and Gardner stands there on first base with his finger up his A$$ and doesn't move to second and in scoring position in the bottom of the 8th inning when we are down by only 1 run. Next batter McCann gets a base hit and Ellsbury scores and Garnder can only go to 3rd base when he could have scored the go ahead run if he went to second on that wild pitch. And we would have won that game, when Miller retired the sides in the 9th. How many big games has this team lost by making these type of dumb and stupid mistakes.

And I didn't expect them to give away our top prospect at the trade deadline, I expected them to put their money back on the field of play with the free agent available pitchers and players. Baseball is big business today, and that is why George was the best, and got the best when they were available, because he was a great business man, and made his money back by putting his money back on the field of play.

Like I said, I am not about to give this team a pass. Tell it like it is. I don't want to hear these BS Talking points.  



Two points ...


First point is that you are angry that they didn't spend more money in the beginning of the season to put a better product on the field ... on that I agree.


Second point ... we are dealing with what they did put on the field ... and that team over-achieved to the point where they were 7 games up in July ... that's why we are all so upset right now ... because that team that over-achieved is now coming down to earth.


Basically, your anger is well placed ... it's the management that didn't put a better product on the field in the first place ... and that's not the Yankee way.

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