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1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 2:48PM #1
brennele
Posts: 441
Well, I am a bit new here and I am wondering about something.  I note where the key players make enormous salaries and I also note where all sports - including baseball - are fraught with injuries.  Seems people are constantly gettng on and off the DL.  So, here is my question.  Do these players get paid their full contracted salary when on the DL.  Some of these injuries, esp the ones requiring surgery, can result in 6, 12 or even 18 months of rest and rehab before the person is able to, once again, play competitively in a game.  Sometimes the injury is such that he  may never regain his former status. 

So, here we have players making, say, 10 million dollars per year and, now, xyz play has become injured during a game to where he is going to be out a least  year.  Perhaps he will require surgery or extensive rehab.  Does he get paid his full salary while he is unable to play i.e. generate any money for the franchise?  Sounds incredible to me but what do I know.  I am thinking that perhaps the franchise and/or the player purchases insurance to protect them against such events.  What actually happens when a player is injured and can not play for a specified period of time? 
1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 3:01PM #2
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 9,166

They are guaranteed contracts and the baseball players get full pay on the Disabled List.  Performance clauses are rare in baseball contracts.  Teams actually take out insurance policies on the really large contracts.

1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 3:04PM #3
RobS44
Posts: 4,694

The short answer is yes. Most MLB contracts are guaranteed so a player on the DL continues to be paid his full salary.  Occaionally you will see an injury clause.  For example, the final year of CC's extension signed after the 2011 season stated that 2017 wasn't guaranteed if he spent more than a certain number of days on the DL or suffered a shoulder injury that landed him on the DL.   Had he blown out his shoulder in, say, 2012, he still wpuld have received the entire value of the contract through 2016.  Clubs often do purchase injury insurance that pays the team, I think, about 75% or 80% if a player suffers a long term injury.


Not sure about the NHL or NBA, but large chunks of NFL contracts are not guaranteed so an injured payer can be cut and paid only the guaranteed portion plus, possibly, some sort of termonation pay.

1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 3:41PM #4
brennele
Posts: 441

Wow!  These are sweet deals, for sure.  It makes sense that someone is taking out insurance policies.  Hard to otherwise justify paying someone multi-millions of dollars when he can't perform, albeit through no fault of his own.  It also makes it incumbant upon the player not to do anything which intentionally puts him in harms way e.g. staying up all night drinking (ala Matt Harvey style) or getting severely sunburnt or lifting weights without a spotter or doing anything else which is avoidable but which can cause disability for one or more games.  I guess the same thing goes for doing things around the house (like carrying heavy air conditioners down from the attic) which could impair performance.  Yikes, these guys must need to be very careful about such matters.

1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 4:37PM #5
Lulu
Posts: 2,454
Guaranteed contracts. Most teams take out insurance on big contracts
When TeX got hurt in the baseball classic, the insurance kicked and paid the Yankees back
The same has happened with the Mets and David Wright. With all his lengthy injuries and re-habs, the Mets are getting paid. Back.
1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 5:41PM #6
brennele
Posts: 441

Lulu,  Well, that would make a lot of sense.  How is it handled when the player has a contributing role in the disability say the player is afflicted with substance abuse.  We all know that such things can happen to the best of us.  I am sure it happens in MLB.  How is it handled?  Also are there clauses in the contract to cover behavior which is objectionable and which can cost the franchise big bucks.  Say a play is arrested for a DUI or domestic violence and ends up serving jail time.  You would have to think there must be clauses in the contract which prohibit such behavior and do not pay on the salary.  Missing important games because one has a court date or is doing mandatory community service which conflicts with game time or  whatever happens as a result of someone's behavior could cost money.


In my own profession (I am a nurse practitioner) we have a "morals clause" as a part of our licenses.  If one gets convicted of something serious, you lose your license even it it has nothing to do with your profession.   If you get convicted of say embezzelment or insider stock trading or virtually anything else, your license can - and typically is - yanked.  The fact that whatever you did does not impair your performance does not matter.  The license granted reads that the holder must be "of good moral character"  Morality is not closely defined but lots of stuff can disquality you and get your license yanked.  People have lost their licenses for posting objectionable comments or photos on facebook.

1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 6:48PM #7
RobS44
Posts: 4,694

Nov 5, 2017 -- 5:41PM, brennele wrote:


Lulu,  Well, that would make a lot of sense.  How is it handled when the player has a contributing role in the disability say the player is afflicted with substance abuse.  We all know that such things can happen to the best of us.  I am sure it happens in MLB.  How is it handled?  Also are there clauses in the contract to cover behavior which is objectionable and which can cost the franchise big bucks.  Say a play is arrested for a DUI or domestic violence and ends up serving jail time.  You would have to think there must be clauses in the contract which prohibit such behavior and do not pay on the salary.  Missing important games because one has a court date or is doing mandatory community service which conflicts with game time or  whatever happens as a result of someone's behavior could cost money.


In my own profession (I am a nurse practitioner) we have a "morals clause" as a part of our licenses.  If one gets convicted of something serious, you lose your license even it it has nothing to do with your profession.   If you get convicted of say embezzelment or insider stock trading or virtually anything else, your license can - and typically is - yanked.  The fact that whatever you did does not impair your performance does not matter.  The license granted reads that the holder must be "of good moral character"  Morality is not closely defined but lots of stuff can disquality you and get your license yanked.  People have lost their licenses for posting objectionable comments or photos on facebook.




MLB contracts all contain a clause that requires the player to keep himself in  good enough condition to be able to play.  They also usually include a list of activities that if the player engages in one or more of them and gets hurt allows the team to void he contract.  Like sky diving or skiing.  Most notably for the Yankees Aaron Boone tore up his knee in the off season playing basketball and the Yankees voided his contract.


Drug use or alcoholism can be tricky because you can run afoul of the Americans with Disabilities Act.  There was some speculation/hope that ARod's suspension for steroid use might give the Yanks a way to void the remander of his contract.  I am sure the Yanks lawyers looked into it but i the ed all they saved was the one year of salary while he was suspended. 


I am sure a team can refuse to pay a player who misses a game or goes to prison for the time he misses, not sure if they can void the entire contract if he will be released from prison before the contract ends.


Interestingly, in Massachussets, if you are convicted of a crime and die before all appeals are completed, the conviction is vacated.  Aaron Hernandez was convicted or murder but committed suicide in prison before his appeals were completed so, technically, he was never convicted and his estate is suing the Patriots for the remaining portion of his contract.

1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 6:55PM #8
RobS44
Posts: 4,694

PS, thanks for raising this interesting topic.  The difficulty in getting rid of pro athletes who misbehave as compared, say, to your profession, is a testament to the strength of the players' union.,

1 month ago  ::  Nov 05, 2017 - 6:57PM #9
brennele
Posts: 441

Wow - Rob, that is some interesting post.  Everything you said makes sense.  They probably have a list of "including but not limited to" for activities.  I was surprised to find skiing there but, come to think of it, it IS dangerous.  When the stakes are that high, I guess they have to be careful.  I suspect you are right re Americans with Disabilities act.  It is probably more of an issue with alcohol than with drugs.  Alcohol is legal so oine can legitimately be disabled using a legal substance.  I am not so sure about how it would all pan out with the whole drug thing.  That falls in the category of criminal activity - for most drugs anyway - so I suspect the Act might not be as applicable.  Companies can have policies for random drug testing and fire people who fail the test.  I am thinking that they probably can get away with mandatory drug testing before signing a contract.

1 month ago  ::  Nov 06, 2017 - 11:40AM #10
RobS44
Posts: 4,694

Nov 5, 2017 -- 6:57PM, brennele wrote:


Wow - Rob, that is some interesting post.  Everything you said makes sense.  They probably have a list of "including but not limited to" for activities.  I was surprised to find skiing there but, come to think of it, it IS dangerous.  When the stakes are that high, I guess they have to be careful.  I suspect you are right re Americans with Disabilities act.  It is probably more of an issue with alcohol than with drugs.  Alcohol is legal so oine can legitimately be disabled using a legal substance.  I am not so sure about how it would all pan out with the whole drug thing.  That falls in the category of criminal activity - for most drugs anyway - so I suspect the Act might not be as applicable.  Companies can have policies for random drug testing and fire people who fail the test.  I am thinking that they probably can get away with mandatory drug testing before signing a contract.




In most cases where you have a contract what you can and cannot be fired for is spelled out in the contract.  Absent a co ntract saying therwise an employee can be fired for a single failed urine test.  Players ae covered under the  MLB CBA which spells out 1st offwnse, sd offense and 3rd offense penalties.


I included skiing because it is an obviously somewhat dangerous sport, but also I am old enough to remember 1967 when Jim Lonberg led to Red Sox to vgame 7 of the WS then tore up his knee sking the following winter.

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