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Cashman needs to fall on his knees, and beg Girardi to come back, admitting he made a big mistake!
2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 8:03PM #31
brennele
Posts: 384

The part I am not clear about is how much of the team composition is under the say so of Cashman and how much is/was it the purview of Girardi.  Who actually decides which players to acquire, which ones to trade and how long of a contract to offer any particular player?  On some level, of course, the owners would have a major role in such decisions when it comes to salary and contract length but you would have to think they would consult with Cashman and/or Girardi.  I would like to know who is the major decision maker in such matters.  Everyone knows that youth is a huge advantage in any sport and everyone also knows that people (including MLB players) want job security.  So we have two mutally exclusive goals here.  Who is it that makes the decisions on these matters? 

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 8:19PM #32
Cocopugg
Posts: 2,653

[/quote]


George LOVED Superstars. No way would he even put himself in a situation where the Yankees would field a young unproven team. NO WAY. 


[/quote]

Really? Funny thing, I don't remember ANY superstars (except Clemens who got onboard late) on the 1996-2001 Yankee championship teams, and as I recall, George was still the owner back then!

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 8:41PM #33
bumper
Posts: 2,574

Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:39PM, luvdayanks wrote:


Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:35PM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:34PM, newinn wrote:


Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:27PM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:25PM, moonmaster wrote:


Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:15PM, brennele wrote:


People who have an "Oh well, we lost, better luck next year" need to become NY Mets fans.  There was a time when it was just understood that the NY Yankees would be playing in the world series and if they did not, it was a remarkable event.  Something changed drastically - likely it was the luxury tax thing - but people now are grateful for crumbs.  Not a good attitude.  When you expect to lose, you lose.  There is this saying which goes to the effect of "If you think you can or you think you can't - either way you are right."  Perhaps I am naive but is not the job of the manager to manage the team to win?  The only excuse he would have for (repeated!) failures is if the owners micromanage him and don't let him do his job.  Perhaps that is so in which case he then gets a pass.  I don't know enough about baseball to comment as to whether Girardi was micromanaged or whether he is given free reign to win. 


Also, there has been a whole lot of talk about players past their prime who held long contracts and were dead wood for the team.  People accepted that scenario as though it was just a given i.e. an unavoidable state of affairs.  Well who gave the players those contracts, in the first place?  The contracts did not write themselves and fall from the sky.  Does management perhaps need a calculator and a textbook on physiology.  It was predictable scenario; it was a given that such would happen.  It is well known that every year a person becomes one year older.  A 25 year old with a 10 year contract will predictably become a 35 year old with a contract in force.




Didn't you say you were a newbie, and just became a Yankee fan a couple of months ago? 





She's an arrogant, condescending, SOB ... that's what she is.




Facinating. She's been following baseball for two months and already can tell long time Yankee fans that didn't want Girardi fired to go root for the Mets. I swear, you can't make this stuff up




She has her nerve I'll tell you that ... if she wasn't already on my sh!t list, she is now!




I think she's  using a different tactic of being a troll. She begs for information as a "newbie",  then seems to know it all.




plus every post is like reading a novel.

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 8:42PM #34
Bats
Posts: 7,281

Nov 10, 2017 -- 3:07PM, brennele wrote:


Here is the part I don't get.  Everyone is amazed and thankful that the Yankees did so well this year.  Everyone was expecting them to do far less than reach the pennant stage.  Well, what the heck.  Why is everyone accepting such a dismal state of affairs like it was a given?  Whose fault is it/was it in the first place that the Yankees were expected to do so poorly.  Is that not the function of the manager?  When a team is "expected" to poorly and then exceeds those (dire) expectations, why is no one questioning why the standard was so low, in the first place?  I just don't get this acceptance of poor results.  Is this a millenial thing? 


When a team is underperforming, someone needs to be held accountable.  If not the manager, then who?  How did it come about that the expectations and recent past performance were so bad?  Am I the only one here who thinks that 4 mil is a lot of money and for that kind of money you need to produce?  What is with everyone here?  Are you all here so well off that you think 4 million is chump change?  It is a lot of money and he has not been delivering the goods.  Everyone seems to be just accepting the past poor performance and hoping for a better future. What kind of BS is this sort of thinking.   Failure is not an option and when it occurs year after year after year, somebody needs to be held accountable and then somebody needs to go. 




HUH?


Excuse me.....do you actually think that the 2017 Yankees underperformed?  You really ARE THAT DUMB. I'm think that it's either YOU or YOUR MOTHER. After, she is the one who talked baseball around you, right? 


Basically, what this idiot is saying is that Girardi is too blame for all of Betances and Chapman's blown saves and their inability to hit Verlander who handcuffed the Red Sox, Yankees, and the Dodgers. 


Not only that, but DUMB@$$ over here thinks that the Yankees , despite all the injuries and all the fading stars should be in the because the manager receives 4 million a year. 


You know how dumb that is? Take for example this post...


Nov 10, 2017 -- 6:25PM, brennele wrote:


I hate to break it to some of you guys but none of this stuff is esp hard to figure out.  It is almost all common sense.  It is not even complicated.  Baseball is not all that different from any other business and that is exactly what it is - a business.  When people are paid to do a job and they don't come through they get fired.  It is called a reality of life. The Yankees don't play in the WS for eight years while Girardi is managing them and you think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out he is not doing his job and he is going to get fired?  This  is something hard to figure out?




NO. IT'S NOT. 


It's not common sense and believe me, I ran a business.  You just generalized and anyone who knows how a business runs, knows that it's not done by the book. Firing someone becaus they didn't "come through" isn't a reality of life.  That tells me, that you brennele don't really know how this world works.


Think about it...


Would it be right for me to FIRE an employee, if I (the business owner/operator) expected daily reports from that person and didn't get it, knowing that the tools to get those reports were not functioning properly? 


The times that Joe Girardi did not make the post season, as Yankee Manager, he didn't have the "tools" to do so.  In 2013, Girardi practically had scab team. No Tex, No Arod, No Jeter, No Granderson, no whatever..... In 2014, again...no Tex, no Arod, and a plethora of injured players in 2014.  AGAIN...in 2016, figuratively speaking, he had no Teixeira and Arod on the team. In 2017, he finally had his Tex and his Arod, they were just called Judge, Sanchez, and Didi and they made the post season. They should've been in first place, had Betances and Chapman performed better at their jobs during the season.


LOL...you know what's so funny about the Yankees not winning the AL EAST this past season? LOL...it was actually a BLESSING! Brennele, if you don't understand that, then maybe someone will be kind enought to explain it to you, because I am not in the mood to play 1st grade baseball teacher to you.


The point of all this is to say....a person doesn't deserve to be fired if the poor outcome is not a direct result of the worker's actions. 


Joe Girardi was hired to manage a veteran team and wasd re-signed twice to do so. It just happened to be, that last year, the Yankees decided to go another direction as a franchise, when they traded Miller, Chapman, Beltran, and released Arod. Joe Girardi did not get fired for bad managing. Why you think Girardi got fired is just plain DUMB. Cashman said, the issue was with Girardi connecting with players.  If Girardi was REALLY THAT BAD OF A MANAGER, he would've been fired MID-SEASON!!!  THAT is COMMON SENSE. 


Let's say that Girardi had one year left in his contract and it ended in 2018. After this 2017, would the Yankees actually fire him? The answer to that is NO.  It's NO, because the Yankees wouldn't want to pay the salary of a new manager and Joe Girardi's salary for the remainder of the contract. HOWEVER....if Joe Girardi really mis-managed the team or completely lost them (as a whole)....and I am talking "Ray Handley" here....would the Yankees actually fire him? I think, in that case YES, despite the fact of there being one year left in the contract.


The point of all this is, that Joe Girardi did not get fired. 

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 8:43PM #35
dixieyank
Posts: 4,470

Nov 10, 2017 -- 8:19PM, Cocopugg wrote:



Really? Funny thing, I don't remember ANY superstars (except Clemens who got onboard late) on the 1996-2001 Yankee championship teams, and as I recall, George was still the owner back then!




Wade Boggs, Tim Raines, Darryl Strawberry, Cecil Fielder, Dwight Gooden, David Cone, David Wells, Chuck Knoblauch, Chili Davis, David Justice.


Then if you go forward to 2001, you got Mike Mussina. 2002 you got Giambi, Ventura, Raul Mondesi, and David Wells was back. 2004 would see Kevin Brown, Jon Lieber, trade for Loaiza, Tom Gordon, Javy Vasquez, Kenny Lofton, Olerud, Tony Clark, Miguel Cairo, Gary Sheffield.


2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 8:50PM #36
bumper
Posts: 2,574

Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:49PM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:47PM, Cocopugg wrote:


Nov 10, 2017 -- 4:05PM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Getting to within one game of the World Series is not underperforming.




Mo, I agree with you...all kidding aside, I ragged on Girardi whenever I felt he blew a game, but after the post-season ended, as close as the Yankees got with Girardi as their skipper, I have to say that firing him at this point, is about the dumbest Yankee management decision I can ever remember anyone making. Even George would never fire a manager who got a young team as close to the WS as Girardi got them in 2017. They were primed to take it all the way next season. Now it will feel like they will have to start all over again for someone new. Unless we get someone who performs a first yr miracle, the way Joe Torre did in 1996, which is highly unlikely!




It's a shame that they fired him without a game-plan in place.




agree. something had to have happened (that we'll probably never know) that pushed cashman over the edge.

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 9:23PM #37
RobS44
Posts: 4,671

Nov 10, 2017 -- 3:04PM, NYC_Mike7 wrote:


Yanks interviewing Eric Wedge today. I can see it now, if yanks don't win next year, some people are going to blame Cashman for firing Girardi. First year for the new manager is going to be difficult with massive criticism.




It's an absolute given that if they do not win the WS next season, no matter who the manager is, the peasants will be at the gates of Yankee Stadium with torches and pitch forks demanding Cashman's head.

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 9:39PM #38
RobS44
Posts: 4,671

Nov 10, 2017 -- 8:03PM, brennele wrote:


The part I am not clear about is how much of the team composition is under the say so of Cashman and how much is/was it the purview of Girardi.  Who actually decides which players to acquire, which ones to trade and how long of a contract to offer any particular player?  On some level, of course, the owners would have a major role in such decisions when it comes to salary and contract length but you would have to think they would consult with Cashman and/or Girardi.  I would like to know who is the major decision maker in such matters.  Everyone knows that youth is a huge advantage in any sport and everyone also knows that people (including MLB players) want job security.  So we have two mutally exclusive goals here.  Who is it that makes the decisions on these matters? 




Really, you're asking who makes the decisions as to who is on the roster, how much to pay them and for how long?  Really?


Lord, forgive me but I'll bite.  Ownership has the final decision on ANY contract or trade.  Though most moves are undoubtedly Cashman's, it is widely suspected that over the years a number of signings have been upper management moves that Cashma n opposed, some times not too subtly.  Alfonso Soriano, for example.  As for the manager, he can certainly request they acquire a particular player or a particular type of player, say, a left handed reliever, and the GM may well ask him if a proposed player would be a good fit, but beyond that the decision is the GM's or upper management.

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 9:42PM #39
Lola
Posts: 18,090

Nov 10, 2017 -- 9:23PM, RobS44 wrote:


Nov 10, 2017 -- 3:04PM, NYC_Mike7 wrote:


Yanks interviewing Eric Wedge today. I can see it now, if yanks don't win next year, some people are going to blame Cashman for firing Girardi. First year for the new manager is going to be difficult with massive criticism.




It's an absolute given that if they do not win the WS next season, no matter who the manager is, the peasants will be at the gates of Yankee Stadium with torches and pitch forks demanding Cashman's head.




They're probably sharpening their pitchforks now. I can see it now!


I really hate this expectation that we're suppose to win next season. That's a lot of pressure to put on a young club. Not to mention they haven't done anything to improve. We really need a sp.

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2017 - 10:11PM #40
brennele
Posts: 384

Bats,  The fact is that everyone simply can't be as brilliant as you are.  What's more I love the way you use your high intellect to TACTFULLY help others understand the game and how the system works.  We are all so lucky to have you here.



Rob, thanks.  That info is very helpful. Perhaps I am blaming Girardi for matters over which he has no control.  I would have thought the managers made those kinds of decisions.  Seems to me that ownership requires big bucks and a love of baseball.  Management positions (where one has former player experience) are where you would expect people to have true expertise to make crucial decisions. 

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