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"Not made for NY"
1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 11:31AM #1
cleanuphtr12
Posts: 143
I mentioned this in another thread and I think it warrants its own thread.

This is something that Yankees fans do a lot.  A player (usually a pitcher) has a bad season and he gets labeled as not being tough enough for NY.  It is never seen as a down year and no one even considers the possibility of some kind of mechanical issue.  The pitcher is automatically labeled as a "mental midget" who "can't handle NY" and everyone starts forwarding prices for plane tickets out of town to the Yankees front office.

This really doesn't happen anywhere else.  Rick Porcello's first season in Boston looked nearly identical to Gray's current season.  Was he labeled as "too soft for Boston"?  I don't really know what RS fans were saying...  but I do know he stayed in Boston and won the Cy Young his next season.  Why is it possible for a player to just have a BAD season in Boston or LA or even on the Mets without being an "incapable mental midget who will never be able to make it here and needs to GO"?  Why are Yankee fans so quick to demand that the team sell at a player's lowest value?

I'm not defending Sonny Gray's 2018 season, and I wouldn't guarantee him anything goin into 2019 but is it really a foregone conclusion that his current season is a result of him being "soft"?  He had a decent half season in NY in 2017 and his career track record is solid.  Would it really be THAT terrible to hang onto him for another season and let him compete for a rotation spot with some of the younger guys?  What's the downside?  His trade value is already pretty much shot already so the "risk" is that he is a long reliever and mop up guy (a role that is actually needed on every team).  The upside is that if you can fix him, you get the solid pitcher he's been for most of his career.  

If something of value can be gotten for him in the offseason, sure, move him...  but a lot of people seem to be willing to dump him for nothing.  I'm not sure I agree with that mindset.
1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 12:23PM #2
newinn
Posts: 30,877

Sep 14, 2018 -- 11:31AM, cleanuphtr12 wrote:

I mentioned this in another thread and I think it warrants its own thread.

This is something that Yankees fans do a lot.  A player (usually a pitcher) has a bad season and he gets labeled as not being tough enough for NY.  It is never seen as a down year and no one even considers the possibility of some kind of mechanical issue.  The pitcher is automatically labeled as a "mental midget" who "can't handle NY" and everyone starts forwarding prices for plane tickets out of town to the Yankees front office.

This really doesn't happen anywhere else.  Rick Porcello's first season in Boston looked nearly identical to Gray's current season.  Was he labeled as "too soft for Boston"?  I don't really know what RS fans were saying...  but I do know he stayed in Boston and won the Cy Young his next season.  Why is it possible for a player to just have a BAD season in Boston or LA or even on the Mets without being an "incapable mental midget who will never be able to make it here and needs to GO"?  Why are Yankee fans so quick to demand that the team sell at a player's lowest value?

I'm not defending Sonny Gray's 2018 season, and I wouldn't guarantee him anything goin into 2019 but is it really a foregone conclusion that his current season is a result of him being "soft"?  He had a decent half season in NY in 2017 and his career track record is solid.  Would it really be THAT terrible to hang onto him for another season and let him compete for a rotation spot with some of the younger guys?  What's the downside?  His trade value is already pretty much shot already so the "risk" is that he is a long reliever and mop up guy (a role that is actually needed on every team).  The upside is that if you can fix him, you get the solid pitcher he's been for most of his career.  

If something of value can be gotten for him in the offseason, sure, move him...  but a lot of people seem to be willing to dump him for nothing.  I'm not sure I agree with that mindset.



I agree. Except in rare cases do I believe players have that much problem plying in New York. I think it's an easy excuse for fans when players have success, come to New York  and have a bad season

1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 12:36PM #3
meacham
Posts: 2,020

On the one hand, if Gray wasn't cut out for NY, then explain his 2017 performance as a Yankee.   Although that is a small sample size.


On the other hand, no pitcher with home/away splits like Sonny's should be pitching 1/2 of their games in NYS.


I would almost say he's turning out to be like Mike Hampton when he went to the Rockies, his home park is killing him.   Maybe he's overcompensating there, maybe some of it is mental.   Oakland is a much friendlier park for pitchers, larger and you get some free outs from all the extra foul territory too. 


His splits are a legit red flag to me in terms of whether or not he belongs on the Yankees.   If I were in Cashman's shoes, I'd be showcasing the hell out of him in ST and trying to make a deal before the season starts.   Try at least to get him to show he has it in ST to raise his stock.


If the offers I was getting were garbage, then I'd have to give him another shot, but I think he's more valuable to a team that doesn't play in our park.   His away numbers are as solid as you would expect him to have been and other teams should want to take a chance on that, especially if Sonny is dealing in ST.

1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 1:02PM #4
Paterson
Posts: 5,493

Sep 14, 2018 -- 11:31AM, cleanuphtr12 wrote:

I mentioned this in another thread and I think it warrants its own thread.

This is something that Yankees fans do a lot.  A player (usually a pitcher) has a bad season and he gets labeled as not being tough enough for NY.  It is never seen as a down year and no one even considers the possibility of some kind of mechanical issue.  The pitcher is automatically labeled as a "mental midget" who "can't handle NY" and everyone starts forwarding prices for plane tickets out of town to the Yankees front office.

This really doesn't happen anywhere else.  Rick Porcello's first season in Boston looked nearly identical to Gray's current season.  Was he labeled as "too soft for Boston"?  I don't really know what RS fans were saying...  but I do know he stayed in Boston and won the Cy Young his next season.  Why is it possible for a player to just have a BAD season in Boston or LA or even on the Mets without being an "incapable mental midget who will never be able to make it here and needs to GO"?  Why are Yankee fans so quick to demand that the team sell at a player's lowest value?

I'm not defending Sonny Gray's 2018 season, and I wouldn't guarantee him anything goin into 2019 but is it really a foregone conclusion that his current season is a result of him being "soft"?  He had a decent half season in NY in 2017 and his career track record is solid.  Would it really be THAT terrible to hang onto him for another season and let him compete for a rotation spot with some of the younger guys?  What's the downside?  His trade value is already pretty much shot already so the "risk" is that he is a long reliever and mop up guy (a role that is actually needed on every team).  The upside is that if you can fix him, you get the solid pitcher he's been for most of his career.  

If something of value can be gotten for him in the offseason, sure, move him...  but a lot of people seem to be willing to dump him for nothing.  I'm not sure I agree with that mindset.



    Years ago I posted something similar about Ed Whitson. Thankfully I did it on Compuserve and it was read by very few.

1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 1:18PM #5
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 73,113

I'm not crying for Sonny Gray or how Yankee fans view him ... he has stunk it up this year ... I'm sure the front office can find a suitable trade based on most of his bad games being at Yankee Stadium ... I hope they do it sooner than later.

1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 1:57PM #6
jimwest
Posts: 921

Sep 14, 2018 -- 11:31AM, cleanuphtr12 wrote:



This is something that Yankees fans do a lot.  A player (usually a pitcher) has a bad season and he gets labeled as not being tough enough for NY.  It is never seen as a down year and no one even considers the possibility of some kind of mechanical issue.  The pitcher is automatically labeled as a "mental midget" who "can't handle NY" and everyone starts forwarding prices for plane tickets out of town to the Yankees front office.

This really doesn't happen anywhere else.  Rick Porcello's first season in Boston looked nearly identical to Gray's current season.  Was he labeled as "too soft for Boston"?  I don't really know what RS fans were saying...  but I do know he stayed in Boston and won the Cy Young his next season.  Why is it possible for a player to just have a BAD season in Boston or LA or even on the Mets without being an "incapable mental midget who will never be able to make it here and needs to GO"?  Why are Yankee fans so quick to demand that the team sell at a player's lowest value?

I'm not defending Sonny Gray's 2018 season, and I wouldn't guarantee him anything goin into 2019 but is it really a foregone conclusion that his current season is a result of him being "soft"?  He had a decent half season in NY in 2017 and his career track record is solid.  Would it really be THAT terrible to hang onto him for another season and let him compete for a rotation spot with some of the younger guys?  What's the downside?  His trade value is already pretty much shot already so the "risk" is that he is a long reliever and mop up guy (a role that is actually needed on every team).  The upside is that if you can fix him, you get the solid pitcher he's been for most of his career.  

If something of value can be gotten for him in the offseason, sure, move him...  but a lot of people seem to be willing to dump him for nothing.  I'm not sure I agree with that mindset.



In the case of Gray, it is straightforward why fellow NYY fans are calling him soft. Look at his home/road splits. He is a punching bag at YS, while being effective on the road. Home ERA is 6.98, road 3.22  His surrendered slash line at home is .318/.406/.527/.932  On the road, it is .226/.296/.317/.614


Home: 11 HR's, 35 BB's to 45 K's.  Road: 3 Hr's, 21 BB's to 73 K's. He is just unvarnished terrible at YS. If it was a down year or a mechanical issue, his stats would not be so good on the road. And if a mechanical issue, why would it not be diagnosed and corrected over the entire season? There are tons of hours of film to watch and BP sessions to utilize to straighten out issues. Gray's best years were his first 3. He had a bad 2016, better 2017, now a bad 2018. A pattern may be developing with him.


Regarding Porcello, 2016 was his career year. He won 22, but only won as much as 15 games once before. His ERA of 3.15 was by far his best ever. He only had an ERA under 4 two other years. He was lousy the year before and the year after 2016. In 2015, he was 9-15, 4.92 ERA. In 2017, he was 11-17, 4.65 ERA.


Back to Gray; Cashman said the Yanks had interest in him, but he is still here. So obviously the Yanks were not trading him at a low mid-season value. But they can negotiate a better deal in the offseason.


For me, Gray's hideous record/stats at YS are the reason I believe they should make every effort to trade him after this season.

1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 2:11PM #7
mscamaguey
Posts: 368

In my opinion


It is harder to play in the Bronx than in Fenway because the Yankee fans are used to winning an even though Yankees have won 27 Championships that  will not be tied or surpassed in Yankee Land the owners and fans expect nothing less than a WS Championship. Not so if you are a Boston Fan.


 Last year we had a gritty young team that no one expected to play in October, but they did and were on the verge of going to the WS but fell short game 7 VS Houston. Even after that loss we were proud of their accomplishments and expected this year we would have a Parade down the Canyon of heroes.


The first half of the2018 season they played like champions every single game there was a different hero, the energy, pride and power were on display every single game. We felt we would not be denied this year, but somehow the second half has turned into a Nightmare they cannot wake up. It is an entire Team Collapse, and I include the coaches, they cannot solve the problems. We are getting beat by the dregs of baseball that is not only unacceptable but embarrassing. I think Pedro Martinez had the answer the Yankee Team doesn´t seem to have energy and I agree.


 This team has lost its luster, the runaway train crashed somewhere, the well-oiled machine has tuned into Tin Woodman the character of the Wizard of Oz that was found rusted in a middle of the forest  needing oil to travel to Oz and ask the Wizard for a heart. What we have is a team that looks defeated and they can´t wait for the 2018 season to end. They better take each game from the Blue Jays and paramount put on their big man pants and find a ton of courage and get ready to beat Boston when they come to Town on Tuesday. It is imperative  they prevent Boston from celebrating The AL East Championship on Yankee Hollow ground and if Yanks fail do so I will have no respect for this Team because they would have sullied the Yankee Mantra: Pride Power and Pinstripes.


Does anyone know when  Judge and Chapman are coming back? ROB is not what we need.


I am sorry for my diatribe and I know I will be slammed by some of you and that is OK, but I am furious!


I think Francesa had a Melt Down! and he is a Yankee Fan.


Mike Francesa: This might be the worst 90-win Yankees team ever


By Post Sports Desk September 14, 2018


nypost.com/2018/09/14/mike-francesa-this...

1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 2:25PM #8
Lola
Posts: 21,481

AJ Burnett comes to mind of a pitcher not made for NY. I believe it's a tough place to play... look at what the Yankee fans at the stadium did to Stanton in his 1st couple of weeks in pinstripes. 

1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 3:19PM #9
2BBobby
Posts: 1,042
“I believe it's a tough place to play...”

For those who believe pro ballplayers are not affected by negative reactions from fans...nonsense.
1 week ago  ::  Sep 14, 2018 - 3:44PM #10
Cocopugg
Posts: 6,005

Sep 14, 2018 -- 3:19PM, 2BBobby wrote:

“I believe it's a tough place to play...” For those who believe pro ballplayers are not affected by negative reactions from fans...nonsense.


Stanton's slow start in the Bronx has to do with his opening day "greetings" from the fans. No one will ever change my mind about that.

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