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$15 living wage
6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 7:12PM #31
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 14,753

Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:49PM, 2BBobby wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:22PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


That’s a straw man, of course there are skilled illegal immigrants and there are also unskilled ones.  All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc.  They can’t demand it all because some they don’t qualify for and they risk deportatio if they report their employer.  Enforce E-Verify.  There are certainly day laborers and people in the fields not getting minimum wage and their required breaks.  If it is inhumane not to have this legislation then enforce it.


What demands can a person with no GED or grasp of the native language make?  They get exploited usually by their own and take what they can get.  Look who is operating the kiosks in the malls in border and port cities.




~~~~~~~~~


Since your responses more often than not ignore the central question, I'll employ your tactics.


"All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc."


Considering your general "libertarian" philosophy, is it fair and accurate to assume you'd prefer to see no laws regarding employer/employee regulations, benefits, etc.?




No, I believe in child labor laws and we have a right to organize and collectively bargain.  I just believe laws should be few, unambiguous, and enforced.  Our laws should defend individual inalienable rights and the laws that conflict with them should be eliminated 

6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 7:16PM #32
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 14,753

Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:52PM, bertram wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:49PM, 2BBobby wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:22PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


That’s a straw man, of course there are skilled illegal immigrants and there are also unskilled ones.  All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc.  They can’t demand it all because some they don’t qualify for and they risk deportatio if they report their employer.  Enforce E-Verify.  There are certainly day laborers and people in the fields not getting minimum wage and their required breaks.  If it is inhumane not to have this legislation then enforce it.


What demands can a person with no GED or grasp of the native language make?  They get exploited usually by their own and take what they can get.  Look who is operating the kiosks in the malls in border and port cities.




~~~~~~~~~


Since your responses more often than not ignore the central question, I'll employ your tactics.


"All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc."


Considering your general "libertarian" philosophy, is it fair and accurate to assume you'd prefer to see no laws regarding employer/employee regulations, benefits, etc.?




Somalia is the Libertarian utopia...




I am no anarchist.  Somalia is under the nihilistic caprice of warlords.  I believe in inalienable rights and the Bill of Rights

6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 7:30PM #33
2BBobby
Posts: 3,255

Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:12PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


No, I believe in child labor laws and we have a right to organize and collectively bargain.  I just believe laws should be few, unambiguous, and enforced.  Our laws should defend individual inalienable rights and the laws that conflict with them should be eliminated 




~~~~~


Once again...selective libertarianism.


6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 7:38PM #34
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 14,753

Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:30PM, 2BBobby wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:12PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


No, I believe in child labor laws and we have a right to organize and collectively bargain.  I just believe laws should be few, unambiguous, and enforced.  Our laws should defend individual inalienable rights and the laws that conflict with them should be eliminated 




~~~~~


Once again...selective libertarianism.





I believe our founders borrowed the best of Greek, Roman, English, German, and French thinkers.  They got a lot right and preserved some timeless truths.  We went over me being a small L libertarian.  Maybe I am just independent.  writers like Mises, Hayek, Bastiat, and Hazlitt did a great job of expressing my views on civil society.

6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 7:45PM #35
2BBobby
Posts: 3,255

Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:38PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


We went over me being a small L libertarian.  Maybe I am just independent.  writers like Mises, Hayek, Bastiat, and Hazlitt did a great job of expressing my views on civil society.




~~~~~~~~~~


We went over me being a small L libertarian.


Yes...we did. Kinda like being a small S socialist...no?


Maybe I am just independent. 


How can you possibly be independent? You've expressed a socio-political philosophy!!! Wink





6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 8:00PM #36
bertram
Posts: 6,905

Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:16PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:52PM, bertram wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:49PM, 2BBobby wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:22PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


That’s a straw man, of course there are skilled illegal immigrants and there are also unskilled ones.  All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc.  They can’t demand it all because some they don’t qualify for and they risk deportatio if they report their employer.  Enforce E-Verify.  There are certainly day laborers and people in the fields not getting minimum wage and their required breaks.  If it is inhumane not to have this legislation then enforce it.


What demands can a person with no GED or grasp of the native language make?  They get exploited usually by their own and take what they can get.  Look who is operating the kiosks in the malls in border and port cities.




~~~~~~~~~


Since your responses more often than not ignore the central question, I'll employ your tactics.


"All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc."


Considering your general "libertarian" philosophy, is it fair and accurate to assume you'd prefer to see no laws regarding employer/employee regulations, benefits, etc.?




Somalia is the Libertarian utopia...




I am no anarchist.  Somalia is under the nihilistic caprice of warlords.  I believe in inalienable rights and the Bill of Rights




Does that include the right to clean air and water?  The right to be free of corporate-led endangerment of citizens that comes from deregulating or not regulating industries that produce harmful byproducts that foul our environment and kill people?  You support a party that embraces such corporations and such policies.  How about the right to an education?  You appear to favor charter schools that get to select their student body members and pluck them away from the rest of the "riff-raff" in the general population.  And the taxpayers, many of whose children are relegated to the regular public schools, are forced to pay for what is essentially a "private school" that your kid attends?


The preamble to our Constitution says something about the general welfare:


"...promote the general welfare..." 


This phrase meant that the well-being of the citizens would be taken care of as well as possible by the Federal government.  Do you think Republicans are doing that?


6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 8:02PM #37
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 14,753

Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:45PM, 2BBobby wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:38PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


We went over me being a small L libertarian.  Maybe I am just independent.  writers like Mises, Hayek, Bastiat, and Hazlitt did a great job of expressing my views on civil society.




~~~~~~~~~~


We went over me being a small L libertarian.


Yes...we did. Kinda like being a small S socialist...no?


Maybe I am just independent. 


How can you possibly be independent? You've expressed a socio-political philosophy!!! 



What would you call it?  Classical liberal?  The term liberal has been redefined.  Austrian Economics?  Ignorant unread reporters and progressives called Ron Paul a National Socialist for that, terribly ironic.

6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 8:25PM #38
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 14,753

Nov 6, 2018 -- 8:00PM, bertram wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:16PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:52PM, bertram wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:49PM, 2BBobby wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:22PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


That’s a straw man, of course there are skilled illegal immigrants and there are also unskilled ones.  All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc.  They can’t demand it all because some they don’t qualify for and they risk deportatio if they report their employer.  Enforce E-Verify.  There are certainly day laborers and people in the fields not getting minimum wage and their required breaks.  If it is inhumane not to have this legislation then enforce it.


What demands can a person with no GED or grasp of the native language make?  They get exploited usually by their own and take what they can get.  Look who is operating the kiosks in the malls in border and port cities.




~~~~~~~~~


Since your responses more often than not ignore the central question, I'll employ your tactics.


"All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc."


Considering your general "libertarian" philosophy, is it fair and accurate to assume you'd prefer to see no laws regarding employer/employee regulations, benefits, etc.?




Somalia is the Libertarian utopia...




I am no anarchist.  Somalia is under the nihilistic caprice of warlords.  I believe in inalienable rights and the Bill of Rights




Does that include the right to clean air and water?  The right to be free of corporate-led endangerment of citizens that comes from deregulating or not regulating industries that produce harmful byproducts that foul our environment and kill people?  You support a party that embraces such corporations and such policies.  How about the right to an education?  You appear to favor charter schools that get to select their student body members and pluck them away from the rest of the "riff-raff" in the general population.  And the taxpayers, many of whose children are relegated to the regular public schools, are forced to pay for what is essentially a "private school" that your kid attends?


The preamble to our Constitution says something about the general welfare:


"...promote the general welfare..." 


This phrase meant that the well-being of the citizens would be taken care of as well as possible by the Federal government.  Do you think Republicans are doing that?




Businesses should be accountable in our courts through tort law, I think the Government should have been held accountable when they have run afoul with things like asbestos in construction and Agent Orange in Vietnam.


School choice has been working in Florida.  I don't view anyone as riff-raff.  I was riff-raff in a failing inter-city school.  What seperates the results from a basic public school and the results from private, charter, and magnet schools is primarily active involved parents.  My son shouldn't get a poor education because others aren't focused on their children's education.  I chose a state that lifted itself from 38th to 4th in the nation with results.  Schools are not there to be safe employment, the idea is to give the next generation the best education possible.  If the magnet school and charters are taken away I will likely move or pay out of pocket for private school.  No offense, I wish everyone prioritized the same.

6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 8:27PM #39
bertram
Posts: 6,905

Nov 6, 2018 -- 8:25PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 8:00PM, bertram wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 7:16PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:52PM, bertram wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:49PM, 2BBobby wrote:


Nov 6, 2018 -- 6:22PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


That’s a straw man, of course there are skilled illegal immigrants and there are also unskilled ones.  All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc.  They can’t demand it all because some they don’t qualify for and they risk deportatio if they report their employer.  Enforce E-Verify.  There are certainly day laborers and people in the fields not getting minimum wage and their required breaks.  If it is inhumane not to have this legislation then enforce it.


What demands can a person with no GED or grasp of the native language make?  They get exploited usually by their own and take what they can get.  Look who is operating the kiosks in the malls in border and port cities.




~~~~~~~~~


Since your responses more often than not ignore the central question, I'll employ your tactics.


"All the labor laws; vacation, overtime, FMLA, the ACA, etc."


Considering your general "libertarian" philosophy, is it fair and accurate to assume you'd prefer to see no laws regarding employer/employee regulations, benefits, etc.?




Somalia is the Libertarian utopia...




I am no anarchist.  Somalia is under the nihilistic caprice of warlords.  I believe in inalienable rights and the Bill of Rights




Does that include the right to clean air and water?  The right to be free of corporate-led endangerment of citizens that comes from deregulating or not regulating industries that produce harmful byproducts that foul our environment and kill people?  You support a party that embraces such corporations and such policies.  How about the right to an education?  You appear to favor charter schools that get to select their student body members and pluck them away from the rest of the "riff-raff" in the general population.  And the taxpayers, many of whose children are relegated to the regular public schools, are forced to pay for what is essentially a "private school" that your kid attends?


The preamble to our Constitution says something about the general welfare:


"...promote the general welfare..." 


This phrase meant that the well-being of the citizens would be taken care of as well as possible by the Federal government.  Do you think Republicans are doing that?




Businesses should be accountable in our courts through tort law, I think the Government should have been held accountable when they have run afoul with things like asbestos in construction and Agent Orange in Vietnam.




The Republicans want to "reform" tort law...in other words, roll it back.  You with 'em on that?

6 months ago  ::  Nov 06, 2018 - 8:33PM #40
2BBobby
Posts: 3,255

Nov 6, 2018 -- 8:02PM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


What would you call it?  Classical liberal?  The term liberal has been redefined.  Austrian Economics?  Ignorant unread reporters and progressives called Ron Paul a National Socialist for that, terribly ironic.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The term liberal has been redefined."


Same is true with the term "conservative", which is why I generally avoid using those words. You and others misuse the word "socialist" to fit your agenda.


I read your posts; obviously music is important to you. Consider this:


Neal Peart has often been categorized as an Objectivist and an admirer of Ayn Rand. This is largely based on his work with Rush in the 1970s, particularly the song "Anthem" and the album 2112; the latter specifically credited Rand's work. However, in his 1994 Rush Backstage Club Newsletter, while contending the "individual is paramount in matters of justice and liberty," Peart specifically distanced himself from a strictly Objectivist line. 


In a June 2012 Rolling Stone interview, when asked if Rand's words still speak to him, Peart replied, "Oh, no. That was forty years ago. But it was  important to me at the time in a transition of finding myself and having faith that what I believed was worthwhile." 


Although Peart is sometimes assumed to be a "conservative"" or "Republican" rock star, he has criticized the Republican Party by stating that the philosophy of the party is "absolutely opposed to Christ's teachings." In 2005 he described himself as a "left leaning libertarian" and is often cited as a libertarian celebrity. 


In July 2011, Peart reiterated those views, calling himself a "bleeding-heart libertarian".


In a 2015 interview with Rolling Stone, Peart stated that he supports the Democratic Party.





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