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Yankees are closing in on a two-year deal with infielder DJ LeMahieu
2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 1:58PM #111
SSBob
Posts: 5,074

Jan 12, 2019 -- 1:38PM, Kmer2 wrote:




Bobby..if they NEVER made an offer to Corbin, they NEVER made an offer. It is as simple as that. They walked away from the pitcher that was forced down our throats for months.


OK...they didn't make an offer to Corbin. I don't recall him being "forced down our throats", but do you think Yanks should've match Nats offer?


I am not in favor of losing Andujar but is there really any sort of possible comparison, or debate between who is better, Andujar vs. Machado?/ And the whole point of this discussion is that the Yankees are not spending $$  You questioned where. Thye appear to have walked away from Machado over $$  This would NEVER have happened under GEorge's watch. I do not believe that anyone would debate this.


Machado is "better" than Andujar today. I'm not sure that'll be the case next year or in subsequent years...and neither are you. Yanks may have "appeared" to pass on Machado over money in your mind, but that's just an assumption. Neither you or I know that they have, and if they have, why.


You engaged me on where they should be spending $$$  If you did not want the discussion,, then why begin it in the first place??  It was all about Machado and Harper and the $$$ to begin with. You wrote  "Then don't"  I do not understand.


Your complaint seems to be that the Yanks don't spend enough money on FAs. I asked where you'd like to see it spent. You mentioned Corbin, Brantley, Machado & Harper. We've already discussed Corbin & Brantley. I've said I'm in favor of them signing Harper, not Machado. What more needs to be said?


Stanton played almost 90 games as the DH, and almost every one of them came AFTER Judge was hurt. Stanton is the DH, not a regular OF'er on this team.


I have no problem with him being primarily a DH, although he might.


At this point, anyone would be a replacement for Robertson, but since they dragged their heels a bit, Ottavino is only viable candidate to replace Robertson still on the market.


OK


I am sorry Bobby but this discussion went off the rails.


No problem on my end. I just personally think it's incorrect to say Yanks don't want to spend money. I think they'll spend wisely, just like any other team. I don't see much point in throwing money around just for the sake of it.

2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 2:21PM #112
Kmer2
Posts: 95

Jan 12, 2019 -- 1:58PM, SSBob wrote:


Jan 12, 2019 -- 1:38PM, Kmer2 wrote:




Bobby..if they NEVER made an offer to Corbin, they NEVER made an offer. It is as simple as that. They walked away from the pitcher that was forced down our throats for months.


OK...they didn't make an offer to Corbin. I don't recall him being "forced down our throats", but do you think Yanks should've match Nats offer?


I am not in favor of losing Andujar but is there really any sort of possible comparison, or debate between who is better, Andujar vs. Machado?/ And the whole point of this discussion is that the Yankees are not spending $$  You questioned where. Thye appear to have walked away from Machado over $$  This would NEVER have happened under GEorge's watch. I do not believe that anyone would debate this.


Machado is "better" than Andujar today. I'm not sure that'll be the case next year or in subsequent years...and neither are you. Yanks may have "appeared" to pass on Machado over money in your mind, but that's just an assumption. Neither you or I know that they have, and if they have, why.


You engaged me on where they should be spending $$$  If you did not want the discussion,, then why begin it in the first place??  It was all about Machado and Harper and the $$$ to begin with. You wrote  "Then don't"  I do not understand.


Your complaint seems to be that the Yanks don't spend enough money on FAs. I asked where you'd like to see it spent. You mentioned Corbin, Brantley, Machado & Harper. We've already discussed Corbin & Brantley. I've said I'm in favor of them signing Harper, not Machado. What more needs to be said?


Stanton played almost 90 games as the DH, and almost every one of them came AFTER Judge was hurt. Stanton is the DH, not a regular OF'er on this team.


I have no problem with him being primarily a DH, although he might.


At this point, anyone would be a replacement for Robertson, but since they dragged their heels a bit, Ottavino is only viable candidate to replace Robertson still on the market.


OK


I am sorry Bobby but this discussion went off the rails.


No problem on my end. I just personally think it's incorrect to say Yanks don't want to spend money. I think they'll spend wisely, just like any other team. I don't see much point in throwing money around just for the sake of it.





Look...here's the deal:



There has been too much written and discussed over the air about the Yanks not being in the financial markey for Machado.



Everyone should at least be somewhat familiar with this.



As for Andujar though...I am absolutely fine with him on this team, but that we passed on Machado for $$  Andujar could still be the 3B every day with machado at SS but it appears that the YAnks fell in love with not having to spend $$ to get a SS  They are using the Blue Jays money. As long as Tulo holds up and can play at the level that Machado would/will, then I am ok with that.



As for Machado being better than Andujar, well, no doubt, he is on another level above andujar at present. There is no debate over this, I think.



Going forward??  Well, we know this: Andujar is a major risk defensively. At whatever offensive advantage he provided last season...WAR/oWAR, etc, he gave back 2.2 with his defense.



Machado is one of the best defensive infielders in the game, again, this is staitically sound and really...no debatew there. Machado is 26, Andujar is 23. 



Andujar is heading to 1B in near future, as he is not adequate defensively. If he is not playing 1B, then he will likely be a full-time DH, either here, or elsewhere. 



There is a major hole in the OF right now, and Harper is available.



I pray that the Yankees engage him and bring him in.



They have one opening in the BP, and because they have not brought in another SP, are holding onto Gray, where his over $9 million, added to LeMahieu's $12 could have been a massive chunk of the money needed to bring in Machado.



Again, they took the less expensive way out, in favor of inferior players. This is not really being debated by anyone either.



I do not know everything. I am simply a fan. I may have a good friend who played (pitched) for years in MLB who is/was well known, and his father was a well know MLB figure for years. This man (Cannot reveal name for privacy, just as I cannot reveal mine either..I was a wrestler that most wrestling fans will know) I met this former pitcher through our surgeon, specifically at rehabilitation for our injuries, and he tells me things that I repeat here without using names.



Many of my opinions come from people in the game, have been said by people in the game (specifically Yankees organizational employees) 



I am told that many in the MLB community are saying exactly what I am saying here. Many are not surprised at any of this, as it is being whispered that the Steinbrenner family is trying to withhold $$$ from payroll and luxury taxes because there is a family plan to sell of the team in the near future.



The Yankees ARE enjoying massive revenues...heads and tails above everyone else in MLB, and unheard of profits.



They are not putting it back into players. This...once again, is not really debateable. It is out there for everyone to see.



I do not know if they will sell the team, but I have an education, and I invested wisely. I know the markets to a large degree, and frankly, this looks like a business that is being prepped for sale.



The Steinbrenners alone would make billions, based on the recent Forbes ranking of MAjor Sports Franchises.



At any rate, I would like to see them at least treat us with a little more intelligence, tell us that tye are not going to spend, and not give us "We are a fully Operational Death-Star" type commenst, to then walk way from the likes of Corbin/Machado/Harper, never engage the likes of Brantley or Miller at all.



They have not spent $$$ to insure a winner. This is obvious.



They have spent even less then they did when revenues were 65% less.



These aren the facts of the case, and they are indisputable.



I enjoy our discussions though. I promise, if we were sitting on a barstool saying these same words, they would sound a whole lot different than they do written down here.



I hope we can talk again latter Bobby.

kmer2

Kyle Merritt
Member since 2002
2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 2:36PM #113
SSBob
Posts: 5,074

Jan 12, 2019 -- 2:21PM, Kmer2 wrote:


I hope we can talk again latter Bobby.




Any time Smile


2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 2:50PM #114
RobS44
Posts: 5,608

Jan 12, 2019 -- 12:18PM, SSBob wrote:


Jan 12, 2019 -- 11:19AM, RobS44 wrote:


Ah, Davis, but it IS your money.  Every dollar of revenue the Yankees take in ultimately comes from the fans who purchase tickets, concessions, merchandise, pay for parking, pay cable TV fees, subscribe to MLB.TV and indirectly by having to sit thru all the ads.  So while it is your money, only Hal gets to determine how much he will spend on putting the best possible on the field team and how much he and his family will pocket.


George had a lot of faults, but putting the profit margin over winning wasn't one of them.  Clearly Hal isn't a win at all costs owner.




~~~~~~~~~


Once a dollar passes from my hand to yours it is no longer mine. It is yours, to spend as you please.


As for payroll in relation to revenue...as has been pointed out here, the Yanks have a very young team which translates to a low payroll. The payroll for the starting 7 (not including Stanton) is approx. $15M...total. Where should Yanks be spending more?




I think my posts would indicate that I absolutely agree with that.


That being said if I hand over my discretionary dollars, and I do not like the way the recipient chooses to spend them then I am free to NOT hand over my discretionary dollars.


As to where to spend it, the Yankees would likely be a (much) better team with Corbin, Harper and Machado than they will be without them.  I don't think you can reasonably argue that.  But whether it is the best use of his dollars from Hal's perspective, he has clearly said he doesn't feel that way.

2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 3:14PM #115
SSBob
Posts: 5,074

Jan 12, 2019 -- 2:50PM, RobS44 wrote:


That being said if I hand over my discretionary dollars, and I do not like the way the recipient chooses to spend them then I am free to NOT hand over my discretionary dollars.


As to where to spend it, the Yankees would likely be a (much) better team with Corbin, Harper and Machado than they will be without them.  I don't think you can reasonably argue that.  But whether it is the best use of his dollars from Hal's perspective, he has clearly said he doesn't feel that way.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course you are free to spend your money as you see fit, just as Hal is. You and I may not like it, but again, it's his money and, as you said, we are free NOT to hand over our discretionary dollars.


And, of course, I won't argue Yanks wouldn't be better with Corbin, Harper & Machado. They'd also be better with Kershaw, Greinke, Keuchel and a host of many other players. As I've said, there are many factors which come into play when signing FAs. Money comes into play for me only when it limits moves that could be made, especially a few years down the road. For instance, there's no way Yanks can unload Ellsbury, which is a problem. Even if they wanted to move Stanton to make room for Harper it'd be virtually impossible. 


I think comparing payroll to revenue is not necessarily relevant, especially in Yanks case. Most teams would envy the position they're in with such a young, talented and inexpensive team. But I'm sure no one needs to be reminded that there will come a time, not too far down the road, when they'll need to pay the going rate for Judge and others.


And, just from a personal perspective, I got real tired of hearing that Yanks buy pennants. I prefer as much of a home grown team as realistically possible.

2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 3:17PM #116
Kmer2
Posts: 95

Jan 12, 2019 -- 2:50PM, RobS44 wrote:


Jan 12, 2019 -- 12:18PM, SSBob wrote:


Jan 12, 2019 -- 11:19AM, RobS44 wrote:


Ah, Davis, but it IS your money.  Every dollar of revenue the Yankees take in ultimately comes from the fans who purchase tickets, concessions, merchandise, pay for parking, pay cable TV fees, subscribe to MLB.TV and indirectly by having to sit thru all the ads.  So while it is your money, only Hal gets to determine how much he will spend on putting the best possible on the field team and how much he and his family will pocket.


George had a lot of faults, but putting the profit margin over winning wasn't one of them.  Clearly Hal isn't a win at all costs owner.




~~~~~~~~~


Once a dollar passes from my hand to yours it is no longer mine. It is yours, to spend as you please.


As for payroll in relation to revenue...as has been pointed out here, the Yanks have a very young team which translates to a low payroll. The payroll for the starting 7 (not including Stanton) is approx. $15M...total. Where should Yanks be spending more?




I think my posts would indicate that I absolutely agree with that.


That being said if I hand over my discretionary dollars, and I do not like the way the recipient chooses to spend them then I am free to NOT hand over my discretionary dollars.


As to where to spend it, the Yankees would likely be a (much) better team with Corbin, Harper and Machado than they will be without them.  I don't think you can reasonably argue that.  But whether it is the best use of his dollars from Hal's perspective, he has clearly said he doesn't feel that way.





Yes Rob..



You do not have to hand over your discretionary dollars.



But as a fan, I will always be a fan, and whether or not I choose to hand over mine, I have the god given right to voice my opinion on it, especially so when it would appear that I feel I am being spoken to like a fool.



"We are a fully operational death-star"



What do you suppose this means?



And even if the Yanks spent "stupidly" as the Phils promised to do, what does that have to do with you or I from a business operating standpoint?



I know that if in one of my restaurants, I choose to raise all draft beer by exactly $1.00 per glass, and do nothing to the facilities, keep it clean, buy new glassware, keep experienced waitstaff and bar personnel, and "cheap out" and employ the inexperienced (inferior) because it is fiscally more "responsible" or profitable to do so, then I would begin to lose customers.



Law of business dictates that you have to provide commensurate value for fees charged.



This is how most businesses operate. Note...I said most.



many do not, and fail.



Many do not, and become hated and despised.



Yankee management has taken a bloodbath here this offseason, and rightfully so.



They have repeatedly sent mixed messages, like: We will be fiscally responsible", then "We are a fully operational death-star" while there are major holes still unfilled, and the patchwork they have applied consists of far inferior players.



does ayone really prefer CC Sabathia to Patrick Corbin?



Or even J.A. HApp to Patrick Corbin?



Tulowitzki and LeMahieu to Manny Macvhado?



They have not yet addressed Robertsons depaarture with any replacement at all, let alone someone on his level.



They have not addressed the Outfield at all, and are putting every single egg they posses into the Luke Voit basket.



Yet I am very aware that my season ticket prices have gone up again. 


I am very aware that parking has increased in price too for any stand alone games I want to attend.



Business is business.



Right now, it is all one sided. There has to be considerations on the other end. As of the moment I am typing this out, the Yankees are doing the equivalent of purchasing used barware and utensils. Used taps instead of new equipment to dispense the beer I am charging more for, and seem to be putiing Ice House draft onto the Budweiser Tap to justify increased ticket prices and revenues.



You can look it any way you want, but they are charging a considerable amount more, and spending a considerable amount less.



Most things increase in price, and value.



In 04, player payroll was approx. $226 million.



In 2017, under $193 million.



I notice they haven't won a WS, or even been to one in a decade, yet I see that the Red-Sox have won a few.



It's all about the benjamins.

kmer2

Kyle Merritt
Member since 2002
2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 3:30PM #117
jimwest
Posts: 2,312

Jan 12, 2019 -- 3:14PM, SSBob wrote:


Jan 12, 2019 -- 2:50PM, RobS44 wrote:


That being said if I hand over my discretionary dollars, and I do not like the way the recipient chooses to spend them then I am free to NOT hand over my discretionary dollars.


As to where to spend it, the Yankees would likely be a (much) better team with Corbin, Harper and Machado than they will be without them.  I don't think you can reasonably argue that.  But whether it is the best use of his dollars from Hal's perspective, he has clearly said he doesn't feel that way.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course you are free to spend your money as you see fit, just as Hal is. You and I may not like it, but again, it's his money and, as you said, we are free NOT to hand over our discretionary dollars.


Agreed. If fans don't like the direction of the team, don't follow it, don't spend any money to support it.


And, of course, I won't argue Yanks wouldn't be better with Corbin, Harper & Machado. They'd also be better with Kershaw, Greinke, Keuchel and a host of many other players. As I've said, there are many factors which come into play when signing FAs. Money comes into play for me only when it limits moves that could be made, especially a few years down the road. For instance, there's no way Yanks can unload Ellsbury, which is a problem. Even if they wanted to move Stanton to make room for Harper it'd be virtually impossible.


Bobby, I agree with your earlier post that Corbin would have received a very fair offer from the Yanks. As an NL pitcher with one very good year, I see him as a significant ?, and very possibly not worth even the $23.3m he got from the Nats. The Yankees giving more than that would have been an overpay, and who knows how well he would have been in the AL. Degrom, one of MLB's best pitchers currently, only got $17m from the Mets this year.


Harper I'd like to get, Machado forget it (too many issues imo). Also concur that many factors we fans are not aware of come into play on signing a given FA or not. I do care about money and contract length if it impairs the team going forward, and if it keeps my cable bill increasing for YES and MLB.


I think comparing payroll to revenue is not necessarily relevant, especially in Yanks case. Most teams would envy the position they're in with such a young, talented and inexpensive, team. But I'm sure no one needs to be reminded that there will come a time, not too far down the road, when they'll need to pay the going rate for Judge and others.


The Yankees increased revenue does mean they can have a larger payroll. But with a CBT threshold that is not rising in any proportion to MLB's increased revenues, teams won't keep exceeding it. Even the rich Dodgers went on a cost-cutting binge. The richer teams, especially the Yankees, who have paid out over $340m in taxes, will not keep going over the threshold. Expecting Hal to have a $350m payroll to be paying out more hundreds of millions for nothing isn't realistic. If the MLBPA is unhappy, they better raise the CBT limit.


And, just from a personal perspective, I got real tired of hearing that Yanks buy pennants. I much prefer as much of a home grown team as realistically possible.


I am really with you on this. Absolutely sick and tired of hearing this incessant whine from other fans and some analysts as well.





2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 3:32PM #118
Paterson
Posts: 6,616


   Anyone else suspect the Opening Day infield is going to have Torres at 3rd, Tulo at short, LeMahieu at 2nd and Andujar on another team ?


2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 3:50PM #119
SSBob
Posts: 5,074

Jan 12, 2019 -- 3:32PM, Paterson wrote:


   Anyone else suspect the Opening Day infield is going to have Torres at 3rd, Tulo at short, LeMahieu at 2nd and Andujar on another team ?




~~~~~~~


Actually, that thought had crossed my mind. The only way I want to see Andujar gone would be for a stud SP...and even then I'd be sad to see him go.

2 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2019 - 4:02PM #120
Kmer2
Posts: 95

Jan 12, 2019 -- 3:30PM, jimwest wrote:


Jan 12, 2019 -- 3:14PM, SSBob wrote:


Jan 12, 2019 -- 2:50PM, RobS44 wrote:


That being said if I hand over my discretionary dollars, and I do not like the way the recipient chooses to spend them then I am free to NOT hand over my discretionary dollars.


As to where to spend it, the Yankees would likely be a (much) better team with Corbin, Harper and Machado than they will be without them.  I don't think you can reasonably argue that.  But whether it is the best use of his dollars from Hal's perspective, he has clearly said he doesn't feel that way.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course you are free to spend your money as you see fit, just as Hal is. You and I may not like it, but again, it's his money and, as you said, we are free NOT to hand over our discretionary dollars.


Agreed. If fans don't like the direction of the team, don't follow it, don't spend any money to support it.


And, of course, I won't argue Yanks wouldn't be better with Corbin, Harper & Machado. They'd also be better with Kershaw, Greinke, Keuchel and a host of many other players. As I've said, there are many factors which come into play when signing FAs. Money comes into play for me only when it limits moves that could be made, especially a few years down the road. For instance, there's no way Yanks can unload Ellsbury, which is a problem. Even if they wanted to move Stanton to make room for Harper it'd be virtually impossible.


Bobby, I agree with your earlier post that Corbin would have received a very fair offer from the Yanks. As an NL pitcher with one very good year, I see him as a significant ?, and very possibly not worth even the $23.3m he got from the Nats. The Yankees giving more than that would have been an overpay, and who knows how well he would have been in the AL. Degrom, one of MLB's best pitchers currently, only got $17m from the Mets this year.


Harper I'd like to get, Machado forget it (too many issues imo). Also concur that many factors we fans are not aware of come into play on signing a given FA or not. I do care about money and contract length if it impairs the team going forward, and if it keeps my cable bill increasing for YES and MLB.


I think comparing payroll to revenue is not necessarily relevant, especially in Yanks case. Most teams would envy the position they're in with such a young, talented and inexpensive, team. But I'm sure no one needs to be reminded that there will come a time, not too far down the road, when they'll need to pay the going rate for Judge and others.


The Yankees increased revenue does mean they can have a larger payroll. But with a CBT threshold that is not rising in any proportion to MLB's increased revenues, teams won't keep exceeding it. Even the rich Dodgers went on a cost-cutting binge. The richer teams, especially the Yankees, who have paid out over $340m in taxes, will not keep going over the threshold. Expecting Hal to have a $350m payroll to be paying out more hundreds of millions for nothing isn't realistic. If the MLBPA is unhappy, they better raise the CBT limit.


And, just from a personal perspective, I got real tired of hearing that Yanks buy pennants. I much prefer as much of a home grown team as realistically possible.


I am really with you on this. Absolutely sick and tired of hearing this incessant whine from other fans and some analysts as well.









Nobody will ever know if Corbin would have received any offer from Yanks, let alone what you, me, or any fan would deem fair.  The Yankees NEVER made one to Corbin. This is a matter of record, not opinion.



They do not need to have a $350 million payroll to field a better team than they have put together.



This is not about "boycotting" or switching allegiances.



This is a rather contained, and I feel educated response to the false proclomations from management about what they are doing, and how they are selling it to us as fans.



I mean come on, just open the Athletic today, or head to MLB.com or open the NY Times and read the dozens of articles on how the Yankees have used their resources. Their business?? Then why the need to misrepresent a single bit of it?



Tell us the truth.



How would a child react if they were promised, in vague statements and words, that they would be getting that puppy they wanted, and then you brought home a stuffed animal?



Just a comparison, although what the Yankees have done to date is very similar with the statements released, and deeds accomplished. Or rather not accomplished.



I would guess you are on these boards because you are a Yankee fan?



If so, do you not want to see them win? I mean the post season series when I ask this.



As for DeGrom "Only getting $17 million", you do know that it was a pre-arbitration settlement?



He is not eligible for FA for two more years and had/has NO bargaining power.



I did not know the Yankees were ever in on Kershaw/Keuchel/Greinke (who is not even a FA)



Keuchel is still available though.



Kershaw never declared he was entering the market. He took himself off market by re-upping with LA just days after WS



I do not understand why anyone on these boards would, or do care about Hal being able to deposit every last nickel, as opposed to improving the team.



The costs have been passed on to the fanbase already, whether or not he brings in the marquee players. The costs have ALREADY been passed on to all of us.



As I said in my lastb post about raising beer prices and not justifying it with service, it is samer thing here. All costs have ALREADY gone up, even for those of you want to see Hal make his deposits, and the team sits, at present, with some rather big holes,a nd a whole of scotch tape holding it together. 



Or does anyone really believe that between CC, Tanaka, Happ, and PAxton, who have all had arm/throwing related injuries, will make it through unscathed?



That either Voit will be the real deal, or Bird will perform a 180 and become precisely the player he has proven for a couple of years that he is not?



That Ellsbury will return and be a force?



Or that Tulowitzki, and LeMahieu will become the Jeter/Cano tandem we loved so much in 09?



Or that Andujar will not hurt the team defensively?



If you are even a small, disinterested Yankee fan, you should be asking yourselves thiese questions, and then the big one, if you are indeed asking yourselves this, then why hasn't the management done so? And if they have, why haven't they done anything about it?



Or could it be that they really don't care? Maybe it really is all about the benjamins for Hal and the Steinbrenners.





kmer2

Kyle Merritt
Member since 2002
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