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Overton Window
8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:36AM #21
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 76,667

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:33AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:26AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:21AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:16AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Any doctor who says that abortion is against his beliefs, should never be forced to administer the procedure ... we are still a free nation ... that should not be taken away from someone just because they are in the medical field  ... the right to make their own moral choices.




I'd say the right moral choice there is not to become a doctor in the first place.  If a person cannot in good conscience obey the law in certain professional situations, they should opt for a different profession.




People have a right to choose the profession they are called to and to make their own moral decisions ... you are trying to take people's freedoms away from them ... there are plenty of abortion doctors available ... no reason to force doctors to do it if they have a moral objection to it.




 "...there are plenty of abortion doctors available..." 


The Republican Party has been hard at work for a long time with the goal of reducing that number to zero in spite of the law.  People have the ability to make choices for their profession.  Those who oppose abortion shouldn't be working in a medical field that forces them into participating in that procedure.  It would be like an auto worker refusing to install mandated clean-air devices because he/she wants the engine "to breath free".




It's still a free country ... and as far as I know doctors aren't forced to perform an abortion ... and they never will be as long as we remain a free country.

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:39AM #22
bertram
Posts: 9,404

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:34AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:21AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:16AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Any doctor who says that abortion is against his beliefs, should never be forced to administer the procedure ... we are still a free nation ... that should not be taken away from someone just because they are in the medical field  ... the right to make their own moral choices.




I'd say the right moral choice there is not to become a doctor in the first place.  If a person cannot in good conscience obey the law in certain professional situations, they should opt for a different profession.




It's not consistent with the Hippocratic Oath, I know that is not an official standard.  If that is your stance then I suppose that anestesiologists would have to be willing to euthanize if the law changes to allow assisted suicide or for executions.  That's not an issue now, you hire a person that is willing to perform it at the right price.  Under single payer that will no longer be the case.  For the record I no longer believe in executions.  Not out of sympathy for the criminal but because I don't want their last evil act to be forcing society to murder.  I believe that individual natural rights should be our supreme guidance and if someone infringes upon those rights on others and we are forced to separate them from their liberty we take on the obligation to protect their well being.  Two wrongs don't mak a right.




Let's not make it a Hypocritic Oath.  It's simple...don't enter fields that force you to do lawful things that fly in the face of your moral compass.  If you sincerely believe that legal life begins at conception, for example, you have no business being in the medical profession unless you are willing to make exceptions that follow the law.

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:41AM #23
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 76,667

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:39AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:34AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:21AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:16AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Any doctor who says that abortion is against his beliefs, should never be forced to administer the procedure ... we are still a free nation ... that should not be taken away from someone just because they are in the medical field  ... the right to make their own moral choices.




I'd say the right moral choice there is not to become a doctor in the first place.  If a person cannot in good conscience obey the law in certain professional situations, they should opt for a different profession.




It's not consistent with the Hippocratic Oath, I know that is not an official standard.  If that is your stance then I suppose that anestesiologists would have to be willing to euthanize if the law changes to allow assisted suicide or for executions.  That's not an issue now, you hire a person that is willing to perform it at the right price.  Under single payer that will no longer be the case.  For the record I no longer believe in executions.  Not out of sympathy for the criminal but because I don't want their last evil act to be forcing society to murder.  I believe that individual natural rights should be our supreme guidance and if someone infringes upon those rights on others and we are forced to separate them from their liberty we take on the obligation to protect their well being.  Two wrongs don't mak a right.




Let's not make it a Hypocritic Oath.  It's simple...don't enter fields that force you to do lawful things that fly in the face of your moral compass.  If you sincerely believe that legal life begins at conception, for example, you have no business being in the medical profession unless you are willing to make exceptions that follow the law.




What law?  The law does not state that doctors have to commit abortions ... and it never will.

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:42AM #24
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 17,007

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:33AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:26AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:21AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:16AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Any doctor who says that abortion is against his beliefs, should never be forced to administer the procedure ... we are still a free nation ... that should not be taken away from someone just because they are in the medical field  ... the right to make their own moral choices.




I'd say the right moral choice there is not to become a doctor in the first place.  If a person cannot in good conscience obey the law in certain professional situations, they should opt for a different profession.




People have a right to choose the profession they are called to and to make their own moral decisions ... you are trying to take people's freedoms away from them ... there are plenty of abortion doctors available ... no reason to force doctors to do it if they have a moral objection to it.




 "...there are plenty of abortion doctors available..." 


The Republican Party has been hard at work for a long time with the goal of reducing that number to zero in spite of the law.  People have the ability to make choices for their profession.  Those who oppose abortion shouldn't be working in a medical field that forces them into participating in that procedure.  It would be like an auto worker refusing to install mandated clean-air devices because he/she wants the engine "to breath free".




You worship at the alter of bureaucracy.  Extinguishing life is not the same as complying with emissions standards.  You don't recognize the contradiction in the person who's profession is assisting the safe development of life in the womb being forced to extinguish that life on demand?

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:46AM #25
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 17,007

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:39AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:34AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:21AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:16AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Any doctor who says that abortion is against his beliefs, should never be forced to administer the procedure ... we are still a free nation ... that should not be taken away from someone just because they are in the medical field  ... the right to make their own moral choices.




I'd say the right moral choice there is not to become a doctor in the first place.  If a person cannot in good conscience obey the law in certain professional situations, they should opt for a different profession.




It's not consistent with the Hippocratic Oath, I know that is not an official standard.  If that is your stance then I suppose that anestesiologists would have to be willing to euthanize if the law changes to allow assisted suicide or for executions.  That's not an issue now, you hire a person that is willing to perform it at the right price.  Under single payer that will no longer be the case.  For the record I no longer believe in executions.  Not out of sympathy for the criminal but because I don't want their last evil act to be forcing society to murder.  I believe that individual natural rights should be our supreme guidance and if someone infringes upon those rights on others and we are forced to separate them from their liberty we take on the obligation to protect their well being.  Two wrongs don't mak a right.




Let's not make it a Hypocritic Oath.  It's simple...don't enter fields that force you to do lawful things that fly in the face of your moral compass.  If you sincerely believe that legal life begins at conception, for example, you have no business being in the medical profession unless you are willing to make exceptions that follow the law.




What about my anestesiologist question?  If you go into medicine to save lives should you be required to be an execusioner with a grown human being if that is the law?

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:47AM #26
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 17,007

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:41AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:39AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:34AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:21AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:16AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Any doctor who says that abortion is against his beliefs, should never be forced to administer the procedure ... we are still a free nation ... that should not be taken away from someone just because they are in the medical field  ... the right to make their own moral choices.




I'd say the right moral choice there is not to become a doctor in the first place.  If a person cannot in good conscience obey the law in certain professional situations, they should opt for a different profession.




It's not consistent with the Hippocratic Oath, I know that is not an official standard.  If that is your stance then I suppose that anestesiologists would have to be willing to euthanize if the law changes to allow assisted suicide or for executions.  That's not an issue now, you hire a person that is willing to perform it at the right price.  Under single payer that will no longer be the case.  For the record I no longer believe in executions.  Not out of sympathy for the criminal but because I don't want their last evil act to be forcing society to murder.  I believe that individual natural rights should be our supreme guidance and if someone infringes upon those rights on others and we are forced to separate them from their liberty we take on the obligation to protect their well being.  Two wrongs don't mak a right.




Let's not make it a Hypocritic Oath.  It's simple...don't enter fields that force you to do lawful things that fly in the face of your moral compass.  If you sincerely believe that legal life begins at conception, for example, you have no business being in the medical profession unless you are willing to make exceptions that follow the law.




What law?  The law does not state that doctors have to commit abortions ... and it never will.




Unless if we have single payers, then doctors hypothetically are public employees and that could become part of the job description.  Obviously some want it to be.

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:49AM #27
yankoldfan
Posts: 7,967

Worship ??? The question is do we/you worship ??


Dr's. have a right to turn down someone wanting abortions, it's pretty simple, if the patient is wanting an abortion they will find a Dr. that will do it ...

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:52AM #28
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 76,667

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:47AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:41AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:39AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:34AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:21AM, bertram wrote:


Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:16AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Any doctor who says that abortion is against his beliefs, should never be forced to administer the procedure ... we are still a free nation ... that should not be taken away from someone just because they are in the medical field  ... the right to make their own moral choices.




I'd say the right moral choice there is not to become a doctor in the first place.  If a person cannot in good conscience obey the law in certain professional situations, they should opt for a different profession.




It's not consistent with the Hippocratic Oath, I know that is not an official standard.  If that is your stance then I suppose that anestesiologists would have to be willing to euthanize if the law changes to allow assisted suicide or for executions.  That's not an issue now, you hire a person that is willing to perform it at the right price.  Under single payer that will no longer be the case.  For the record I no longer believe in executions.  Not out of sympathy for the criminal but because I don't want their last evil act to be forcing society to murder.  I believe that individual natural rights should be our supreme guidance and if someone infringes upon those rights on others and we are forced to separate them from their liberty we take on the obligation to protect their well being.  Two wrongs don't mak a right.




Let's not make it a Hypocritic Oath.  It's simple...don't enter fields that force you to do lawful things that fly in the face of your moral compass.  If you sincerely believe that legal life begins at conception, for example, you have no business being in the medical profession unless you are willing to make exceptions that follow the law.




What law?  The law does not state that doctors have to commit abortions ... and it never will.




Unless if we have single payers, then doctors hypothetically are public employees and that could become part of the job description.  Obviously some want it to be.




Single payer for the entire Country will never happen.

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:53AM #29
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 17,007

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:49AM, yankoldfan wrote:


Worship ??? The question is do we/you worship ??


Dr's. have a right to turn down someone wanting abortions, it's pretty simple, if the patient is wanting an abortion they will find a Dr. that will do it ...




They do now because they are not government employees.  Under single payer they potentially could be required to as part of their job description

8 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2019 - 11:53AM #30
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 76,667

Feb 10, 2019 -- 11:49AM, yankoldfan wrote:


Worship ??? The question is do we/you worship ??


Dr's. have a right to turn down someone wanting abortions, it's pretty simple, if the patient is wanting an abortion they will find a Dr. that will do it ...




Finally, someone who makes sense.

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