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MVP question
2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 12:24PM #21
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Sep 18, 2019 -- 11:19AM, chl45 wrote:


So the Angels as a franchise are stupid apparently. They are in 2nd to last place with an MVP on their team for the past few years. Can't remember the last time they were relevant and in the World Series. Same with Oakland. All these teams following the new way of putting together lineups, teams, drooling over on base percentage, and WAR,  shifting like they were driving a 20 speed road ranger Semi every game every batter, teams that think strike outs don't matter, Batting averages don't matter, etc. Where are they? Only Oakland has a shot at being in the playoffs but will take an early exit, like they always do.


You know what wins now, IMO, a well balanced team. Steller starting pitching, a solid dependable bull pen, solid defense, a few home run hitters, along with a few contact hitters and  a few guys that get on base. Well balanced. That sounds a lot like the Astro's, and the Yankees in the American league anyway.   Bregman and DJ are on those two teams.


One of those teams may actually win the WS and one of them should definitely be in it. Don't see the Angels or Oakland being in it do you? Point is MVP is baseball saying it is an individual award for the best player in the game and not necessarily on the best team. I say that is wrong. I thought the object of baseball was to win, and go to the WS. To me the guy that has the most influence helping that team get there is an MVP.




The Angels as a franchise have made the best decisions, that's true. The Josh Hamilton deal was garbage, and deals like CJ Wilson haven't worked out either. They also had some bad luck like the injury riddled Garret Richards they were building around as their ace. But it's pretty rich as Yankees fans to be back in the mix for just a few short years and ridiculing other teams for not being world series contenders. The A's very much could make a run at things, and doing so with their lack of resources is pretty admirable.


As for you decrying WAR and OBP and the like... what do you think the Yankees have done? They've long been a hallmark franchise of working counts, getting to the bullpen, and getting on base. Every team in baseball is using advanced analytics (more advanced than WAR) to build their team. You might not like moneyball, but every team is using a form of it. How do you think the Rays are competing with the Yankees on 1/3 of their payroll? 


But when it comes to the MVP, it's a regular season award and not the playoffs. That's why it's voted on before the playoffs even begin

You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 12:34PM #22
bumper
Posts: 6,712

Sep 18, 2019 -- 11:19AM, chl45 wrote:


Sep 18, 2019 -- 10:48AM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 17, 2019 -- 7:01PM, chl45 wrote:


Sep 17, 2019 -- 6:23PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 17, 2019 -- 5:40PM, chl45 wrote:


 Also let's not forget they can't get anyone else to help him because they gave him all their money the way it looks to me.




And Pujols, and Hamilton, and Upton, and Ohtani, and Andreltom Simmons, and Zak Cozart, and Matt Harvey...


Let's pretend they wouldn't have looked any different with a healthy Ohtani taking the mound every 5th day. 




I get that. My point is if Trout wasn't there how many guys could they have added to the ones you just mentioned. Even two more all starts instead of one. If those guys are so good and worth their money why are they in 2nd to last place? Pitching? Well maybe two aces instead of Trout would be better. I'm just spitballing here not trying to give you a hard time, it is just to me verses baseball, MVP means two different things.




Sure, just go to the allstar tree and pick a couple off. The problem is sometimes you acquire some allstars (like Simmons, Hamilton, Cozart, etc) and they underperform. Nowhere did i say they're so good and worth the money - that's actually the problem. They AREN'T worth the money


Where are you going to find 2 aces? If you're working from the FA market you can't get 2 aces for the price of Trout. You can barely get 1 ace for that price (Price cost AAV of 31 mill, Trout is 35.5). If you're trading, you're trading prospects, and if you're developing from within you can't be trading those players. 


As far as replacing trout with 2 allstars and being further ahead... statistically speaking no. Trout is consistently an 8-9 or more WAR player, so if you're replacing that with allstars you're basically replacing his production with 2 players who provide similar combined production. You're no further ahead.


It's not you vs baseball, it's you vs the BBWAA. If you want to make an award that's purely based on value to a contending team, you're welcome to do as they did and make up your own award to give out. 




So the Angels as a franchise are stupid apparently. They are in 2nd to last place with an MVP on their team for the past few years. Can't remember the last time they were relevant and in the World Series. Same with Oakland. All these teams following the new way of putting together lineups, teams, drooling over on base percentage, and WAR,  shifting like they were driving a 20 speed road ranger Semi every game every batter, teams that think strike outs don't matter, Batting averages don't matter, etc. Where are they? Only Oakland has a shot at being in the playoffs but will take an early exit, like they always do.


You know what wins now, IMO, a well balanced team. Steller starting pitching, a solid dependable bull pen, solid defense, a few home run hitters, along with a few contact hitters and  a few guys that get on base. Well balanced. That sounds a lot like the Astro's, and the Yankees in the American league anyway.   Bregman and DJ are on those two teams.


One of those teams may actually win the WS and one of them should definitely be in it. Don't see the Angels or Oakland being in it do you? Point is MVP is baseball saying it is an individual award for the best player in the game and not necessarily on the best team. I say that is wrong. I thought the object of baseball was to win, and go to the WS. To me the guy that has the most influence helping that team get there is an MVP.




angels won the west in 2014 and were "relevant" through 2015. they were trying to win but they're the poster child for being hamstrung by bad FA deals. remember josh hamilton. you'd think with a core of trout, pujols and hamilton, they'd be winners for a long time but hamilton was a total bust and pujols hasn't been worth that gigantic contract. jared weaver's arm fell off and the rest of the pitching went south. so yeah maybe stupid or bad luck.


many years i think both the best player and best or almost best team sync up. looking at the last 5 years:


2018 mookie won it. pretty clear.


2017 think judge got robbed but altuve was one of the best players on the best team.


2016 trout won on poor team though a strong case could made for betts who played on a winning team.


2015 josh donaldson won. probably best player on a winning team. trout was 2nd and angels were good.


2014 trout won. best player on best team.


so looking at it. 2016 is really the exception and i'm not sure why. a great last 10 games by either bregman or DJLM could swing it in their favor. we'll have to see how the writers see it.






2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 12:43PM #23
chl45
Posts: 1,209

Sep 18, 2019 -- 12:24PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 18, 2019 -- 11:19AM, chl45 wrote:


So the Angels as a franchise are stupid apparently. They are in 2nd to last place with an MVP on their team for the past few years. Can't remember the last time they were relevant and in the World Series. Same with Oakland. All these teams following the new way of putting together lineups, teams, drooling over on base percentage, and WAR,  shifting like they were driving a 20 speed road ranger Semi every game every batter, teams that think strike outs don't matter, Batting averages don't matter, etc. Where are they? Only Oakland has a shot at being in the playoffs but will take an early exit, like they always do.


You know what wins now, IMO, a well balanced team. Steller starting pitching, a solid dependable bull pen, solid defense, a few home run hitters, along with a few contact hitters and  a few guys that get on base. Well balanced. That sounds a lot like the Astro's, and the Yankees in the American league anyway.   Bregman and DJ are on those two teams.


One of those teams may actually win the WS and one of them should definitely be in it. Don't see the Angels or Oakland being in it do you? Point is MVP is baseball saying it is an individual award for the best player in the game and not necessarily on the best team. I say that is wrong. I thought the object of baseball was to win, and go to the WS. To me the guy that has the most influence helping that team get there is an MVP.




The Angels as a franchise have made the best decisions, that's true. The Josh Hamilton deal was garbage, and deals like CJ Wilson haven't worked out either. They also had some bad luck like the injury riddled Garret Richards they were building around as their ace. But it's pretty rich as Yankees fans to be back in the mix for just a few short years and ridiculing other teams for not being world series contenders. The A's very much could make a run at things, and doing so with their lack of resources is pretty admirable.


As for you decrying WAR and OBP and the like... what do you think the Yankees have done? They've long been a hallmark franchise of working counts, getting to the bullpen, and getting on base. Every team in baseball is using advanced analytics (more advanced than WAR) to build their team. You might not like moneyball, but every team is using a form of it. How do you think the Rays are competing with the Yankees on 1/3 of their payroll? 


But when it comes to the MVP, it's a regular season award and not the playoffs. That's why it's voted on before the playoffs even begin




I agree that the Yankees use analytics almost to a fault. Boone and the new wave of managers all buy into it, and are experts at managing players ego's and selling the next man up concepts. All well and good. But when they take common sense out of the game, that I have a problem with. When a struggling baseball player finally has a break out game when he hits one or two bombs and goes 3 for 4, with 5 RBI's and the next game he is on the bench because that is his regular scheduled day off, well that is plain stupid.


Playing a .180 hitter over a .298 hitter because a Lefty is on the mound and the .180 hitter is left handed, is complete insanity. Putting a guy on the IL because he has a blister for 10 days and then letting him play two or three games  in the minors, so he can get reacclimated to the speed of the game again is ridiculous. A billionaire contract player is MVP because he helped his team not be in last place, he got them to 2nd to last instead cause he is so good? Are ya kidding?


Why is Stanton OK to be activated today but he wasn't this past weekend?  4 days was that big a deal when we need to see what this guy has when he has been out since the 9th or 10th of April????.  So I think they should make me the Baseball commissioner and get it over with, stop the madness and let me get this game to make sense again! LMAO!!WinkLaughing

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 1:07PM #24
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Sep 18, 2019 -- 12:43PM, chl45 wrote:


I agree that the Yankees use analytics almost to a fault. Boone and the new wave of managers all buy into it, and are experts at managing players ego's and selling the next man up concepts. All well and good. But when they take common sense out of the game, that I have a problem with. (1)When a struggling baseball player finally has a break out game when he hits one or two bombs and goes 3 for 4, with 5 RBI's and the next game he is on the bench because that is his regular scheduled day off, well that is plain stupid.


(2)Playing a .180 hitter over a .298 hitter because a Lefty is on the mound and the .180 hitter is left handed, is complete insanity. (3)Putting a guy on the IL because he has a blister for 10 days and then letting him play two or three games  in the minors, so he can get reacclimated to the speed of the game again is ridiculous. A billionaire contract player is MVP because he helped his team not be in last place, he got them to 2nd to last instead cause he is so good? Are ya kidding?


(4) Why is Stanton OK to be activated today but he wasn't this past weekend?  4 days was that big a deal when we need to see what this guy has when he has been out since the 9th or 10th of April????.  So I think they should make me the Baseball commissioner and get it over with, stop the madness and let me get this game to make sense again! LMAO!!WinkLaughing




1: I've heard these anecdotes, but i haven't heard many details around them. Was the struggling player playing in 20 consecutive games including the day game after a night game? Might be worth it giving them a rest. It's way better to be on the bench when your head is good as opposed to sitting there thinking how much you suck, so there's something to that. I think i've heard Cone reference how Torre used to have that mentality too


2. Again, i'd like a citation. I haven't seen that happen very often. 


3. There's so much more that goes into that. For example 1) who are you DFA'ing or optioning down to clear up the roster spot? 2) is the injury fully healed, or after reinstating them from the IL will they pop it again and be down another 10 or more days? If you pop it again, but it takes 3 days to heal, now you can be back in 15 days instead of 20. 3) Can you perform to your ability as before, or are you still injured and trying to push it?


4. Probably because he had certain benchmarks he needed to pass to guarantee his legs were good and he wasn't going to be reinjured. Why did you return back from pnemonia after 2 weeks? Why didn't you return the friday before? Why not the thursday and have 2 days to get back to work before the weekend? The reason is because people are healthy when they're healthy and they aren't when they aren't. Why did Koufax retire? Why didn't he give it 1 more season? 


The game makes plenty of sense

You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 1:31PM #25
chl45
Posts: 1,209

Sep 18, 2019 -- 1:07PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 18, 2019 -- 12:43PM, chl45 wrote:


I agree that the Yankees use analytics almost to a fault. Boone and the new wave of managers all buy into it, and are experts at managing players ego's and selling the next man up concepts. All well and good. But when they take common sense out of the game, that I have a problem with. (1)When a struggling baseball player finally has a break out game when he hits one or two bombs and goes 3 for 4, with 5 RBI's and the next game he is on the bench because that is his regular scheduled day off, well that is plain stupid.


(2)Playing a .180 hitter over a .298 hitter because a Lefty is on the mound and the .180 hitter is left handed, is complete insanity. (3)Putting a guy on the IL because he has a blister for 10 days and then letting him play two or three games  in the minors, so he can get reacclimated to the speed of the game again is ridiculous. A billionaire contract player is MVP because he helped his team not be in last place, he got them to 2nd to last instead cause he is so good? Are ya kidding?


(4) Why is Stanton OK to be activated today but he wasn't this past weekend?  4 days was that big a deal when we need to see what this guy has when he has been out since the 9th or 10th of April????.  So I think they should make me the Baseball commissioner and get it over with, stop the madness and let me get this game to make sense again! LMAO!!WinkLaughing




1: I've heard these anecdotes, but i haven't heard many details around them. Was the struggling player playing in 20 consecutive games including the day game after a night game? Might be worth it giving them a rest. It's way better to be on the bench when your head is good as opposed to sitting there thinking how much you suck, so there's something to that. I think i've heard Cone reference how Torre used to have that mentality too


2. Again, i'd like a citation. I haven't seen that happen very often. 


3. There's so much more that goes into that. For example 1) who are you DFA'ing or optioning down to clear up the roster spot? 2) is the injury fully healed, or after reinstating them from the IL will they pop it again and be down another 10 or more days? If you pop it again, but it takes 3 days to heal, now you can be back in 15 days instead of 20. 3) Can you perform to your ability as before, or are you still injured and trying to push it?


4. Probably because he had certain benchmarks he needed to pass to guarantee his legs were good and he wasn't going to be reinjured. Why did you return back from pnemonia after 2 weeks? Why didn't you return the friday before? Why not the thursday and have 2 days to get back to work before the weekend? The reason is because people are healthy when they're healthy and they aren't when they aren't. Why did Koufax retire? Why didn't he give it 1 more season? 


The game makes plenty of sense




 Greg Bird. Hit two homeruns and had 4 or 5 RBI's and they sat him the next day. He hasn't gotten right since and was hurt a little while after that and now is gone, baby, gone. Where is he? Judge and Gary have been injured a few times so far in their Yankee careers as we all know. It takes them awhile to get into a groove again, when they come back as we all know. I don't have the exact days or times, it has happened, that's what I see and when they got back, scuffled a bit and when they hit again, like Gary finally hit a monster 440 ft homer and he he was sat the next day. Didn't hit a homer for almost a week. Luke came back and scuffled a bit to get his power back. He hit his first homer finally, and 2 days later Ford played, and his next homer was what, a few days ago? Now he is back I feel, yes.


Judge scuffled this last time coming back. Was sat after a 2 for 4 game. Took another while to get going again. Then the infamous Joba rules. They ruined that kid when he was here early on with the pen, starting,  the pen, starting, innings limits etc. Again Gary and Judge are to me an indication of what will happen with Stanton when he gets back here. If you don't see that with those guys I am sorry I don't have exact instances or who was dfa'd or sent dopwn, or the way the wind was blowing that day. I don't have a photographic memory and to lazy to look any of it up. I know what I see and that  stuff I remember.


To me it all comes under they are reading what they should do because of what the analytics say and they are never going outside the box and not using the eye test or common baseball sense. Being overly cautious to me isn't a bad thing, but give someone an inch and they will take a mile.

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 3:26PM #26
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Sep 18, 2019 -- 1:31PM, chl45 wrote:


Greg Bird. Hit two homeruns and had 4 or 5 RBI's and they sat him the next day. He hasn't gotten right since and was hurt a little while after that and now is gone, baby, gone. Where is he? Judge and Gary have been injured a few times so far in their Yankee careers as we all know. It takes them awhile to get into a groove again, when they come back as we all know. I don't have the exact days or times, it has happened, that's what I see and when they got back, scuffled a bit and when they hit again, like Gary finally hit a monster 440 ft homer and he he was sat the next day. Didn't hit a homer for almost a week. Luke came back and scuffled a bit to get his power back. He hit his first homer finally, and 2 days later Ford played, and his next homer was what, a few days ago? Now he is back I feel, yes.


Judge scuffled this last time coming back. Was sat after a 2 for 4 game. Took another while to get going again. Then the infamous Joba rules. They ruined that kid when he was here early on with the pen, starting,  the pen, starting, innings limits etc. Again Gary and Judge are to me an indication of what will happen with Stanton when he gets back here. If you don't see that with those guys I am sorry I don't have exact instances or who was dfa'd or sent dopwn, or the way the wind was blowing that day. I don't have a photographic memory and to lazy to look any of it up. I know what I see and that  stuff I remember.


To me it all comes under they are reading what they should do because of what the analytics say and they are never going outside the box and not using the eye test or common baseball sense. Being overly cautious to me isn't a bad thing, but give someone an inch and they will take a mile.




Like i say, anectodotes. You could try and make the argument that a guy who hit 2 HR's "broke out of his slump" but i'd counter that a guy with a .211 lifetime average isn't that good. Gary didn't hit a HR for almost a week? Ooooo. He's a catcher. Catcher's need a game off here and there lol


The Joba rules didn't ruin joba, injuries did. He injured his shoulder in 2008 falling on an awkward play, and was never the same after. 


www.pinstripealley.com/2011/01/25/a-clue...


It really doesn't make sense what you're saying. Greg Bird's career can best be defined as "injured" and your concern is they gave him a day off after 14 games straight. Judge was working back from injury and your concern was they gave him a day off. These guys are banged up, they're going to need some time off.


You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 4:28PM #27
chl45
Posts: 1,209

Sep 18, 2019 -- 3:26PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 18, 2019 -- 1:31PM, chl45 wrote:


Greg Bird. Hit two homeruns and had 4 or 5 RBI's and they sat him the next day. He hasn't gotten right since and was hurt a little while after that and now is gone, baby, gone. Where is he? Judge and Gary have been injured a few times so far in their Yankee careers as we all know. It takes them awhile to get into a groove again, when they come back as we all know. I don't have the exact days or times, it has happened, that's what I see and when they got back, scuffled a bit and when they hit again, like Gary finally hit a monster 440 ft homer and he he was sat the next day. Didn't hit a homer for almost a week. Luke came back and scuffled a bit to get his power back. He hit his first homer finally, and 2 days later Ford played, and his next homer was what, a few days ago? Now he is back I feel, yes.


Judge scuffled this last time coming back. Was sat after a 2 for 4 game. Took another while to get going again. Then the infamous Joba rules. They ruined that kid when he was here early on with the pen, starting,  the pen, starting, innings limits etc. Again Gary and Judge are to me an indication of what will happen with Stanton when he gets back here. If you don't see that with those guys I am sorry I don't have exact instances or who was dfa'd or sent dopwn, or the way the wind was blowing that day. I don't have a photographic memory and to lazy to look any of it up. I know what I see and that  stuff I remember.


To me it all comes under they are reading what they should do because of what the analytics say and they are never going outside the box and not using the eye test or common baseball sense. Being overly cautious to me isn't a bad thing, but give someone an inch and they will take a mile.




Like i say, anectodotes. You could try and make the argument that a guy who hit 2 HR's "broke out of his slump" but i'd counter that a guy with a .211 lifetime average isn't that good. Gary didn't hit a HR for almost a week? Ooooo. He's a catcher. Catcher's need a game off here and there lol


The Joba rules didn't ruin joba, injuries did. He injured his shoulder in 2008 falling on an awkward play, and was never the same after. 


www.pinstripealley.com/2011/01/25/a-clue...


It really doesn't make sense what you're saying. Greg Bird's career can best be defined as "injured" and your concern is they gave him a day off after 14 games straight. Judge was working back from injury and your concern was they gave him a day off. These guys are banged up, they're going to need some time off.





My friend, you make some good points but that's not all there is to it just because you say it with conviction. Joba was messed with way to much and that was way before injuries took him. I'll leave you with this. DO you know why I have certain expectations about some players and baseball?  Because I have the experience with the game I have watched for many many years. Experience that allows me to anticipate results. For me it is really only that.


I don't need a computer to tell me what to expect with certain situations that arrive during a season. I will go out on a limb here, and I will say this from experience with the coming Stanton situation. During his time as a Yankee I see he needs time to get going at the plate. he hasn't played the outfield since April or hit live pitching since then. He has not been the Stanton he was before he got here since arriving in the Bronx as it is. He just hasn't. 


His first few weeks as a Yankee he struggled and let the boo's bother him. To his credit he got past that and became a good contributor, though not very consistently. I anticipate the following scenario and result for Stanton based on that experience watching him so far and seeing how long he has been out and how long it takes him to get going and stop striking out so much early upon his return or start to the season.


He will have less of a chance of being productive than productive and if he struggles out of the gate he will not have enough time to recuperate and turn into the Stanton we know. Please know that I will be rooting for him to succeed and hit like a maniac while he tries to get going however in vain it may be. Do you agree with that about Stanton?


If you do then you have the ability in that situation to have the same experience I do to anticipate the results. If you don't see that, then you have not paid attention to watching him and are looking only at the numbers the computer compiled for him, and think he is better than he may actually be coming back from what he is coming back from. Can you now understand some of why I don't live by the analytics and the numbers or when or how how many other factors of others affect the player or game I am talking about.


I think you would see that. But maybe not. You may be a scientist or an engineer or a Tech wizard in which case guys like me and those types will never see eye to eye. One of my in-laws is an engineer and we never agree on anything, but we have a hell of a lot of fun with each other trying to turn each other around to our own way of thinking. Hasn't worked yet in over 40 years.lol.


you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 11:13PM #28
davis2
Posts: 17,442

Sep 17, 2019 -- 8:00AM, Balboni wrote:


Sep 17, 2019 -- 12:02AM, davis2 wrote:


Sep 16, 2019 -- 11:15AM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 15, 2019 -- 4:41PM, chl45 wrote:

When do they actually vote for the MVP? The reason I ask is Trout is out for the rest of the season needing season ending surgery on the ball of his foot. He has been out for about a week already. If he misses the next two weeks will that give DJ or Bregman or even Torres time to compile more numbers to get closer to his and maybe swing some voters? Or, have they already voted or will do so in a few days?



After the regular season, but before the playoffs. 


Neither LeMahieu or Torres are anywhere close to compiling numbers ahead of Trout. The only reason they'd get votes over Trout is the narrative. Trout is head and shoulders ahead of them.


Throw WAR out, i don't even care. Trout has an OBP of .435 and an OPS of 1.083. LeMahieu's OPS is almost 200 points lower



With out Trout, the Angels still suck.


Without DJ, we are kissing Boston in the standings.




DJ's WAR is 5.5 and the Yankees are 18 games ahead of Boston in the standings. The Yanks easily beat Boston for the division with or without DJ, but they would be probably be several games behind Houston and have to fight Tampa down to the wire with a replacement level player in his place.


DJ has been great and could be an MVP in the post season, but he's not worth 20 plus games of wins over a replacement player, so no we would not be kissing Boston's anything without him.






ok... I think you're wrong. Do you watch games or stat sheets?

2 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2019 - 11:16PM #29
davis2
Posts: 17,442

Sep 17, 2019 -- 4:57PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 17, 2019 -- 12:02AM, davis2 wrote:


Sep 16, 2019 -- 11:15AM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 15, 2019 -- 4:41PM, chl45 wrote:

When do they actually vote for the MVP? The reason I ask is Trout is out for the rest of the season needing season ending surgery on the ball of his foot. He has been out for about a week already. If he misses the next two weeks will that give DJ or Bregman or even Torres time to compile more numbers to get closer to his and maybe swing some voters? Or, have they already voted or will do so in a few days?



After the regular season, but before the playoffs. 


Neither LeMahieu or Torres are anywhere close to compiling numbers ahead of Trout. The only reason they'd get votes over Trout is the narrative. Trout is head and shoulders ahead of them.


Throw WAR out, i don't even care. Trout has an OBP of .435 and an OPS of 1.083. LeMahieu's OPS is almost 200 points lower



With out Trout, the Angels still suck.


Without DJ, we are kissing Boston in the standings.




Statistically speaking... no. 


Boston is 18 games back. Are you honestly going to try and make the argument that LeMahieu has been worth 18 games to the Yankees? 



This isn't the same team without DJ. Numbers can be twisted to fit any argument. But are you saying we have the same team without DJ??? Or that he hasn't made a difference?

2 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2019 - 8:32AM #30
Balboni
Posts: 260

Sep 18, 2019 -- 11:13PM, davis2 wrote:


Sep 17, 2019 -- 8:00AM, Balboni wrote:


Sep 17, 2019 -- 12:02AM, davis2 wrote:


Sep 16, 2019 -- 11:15AM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 15, 2019 -- 4:41PM, chl45 wrote:

When do they actually vote for the MVP? The reason I ask is Trout is out for the rest of the season needing season ending surgery on the ball of his foot. He has been out for about a week already. If he misses the next two weeks will that give DJ or Bregman or even Torres time to compile more numbers to get closer to his and maybe swing some voters? Or, have they already voted or will do so in a few days?



After the regular season, but before the playoffs. 


Neither LeMahieu or Torres are anywhere close to compiling numbers ahead of Trout. The only reason they'd get votes over Trout is the narrative. Trout is head and shoulders ahead of them.


Throw WAR out, i don't even care. Trout has an OBP of .435 and an OPS of 1.083. LeMahieu's OPS is almost 200 points lower



With out Trout, the Angels still suck.


Without DJ, we are kissing Boston in the standings.




DJ's WAR is 5.5 and the Yankees are 18 games ahead of Boston in the standings. The Yanks easily beat Boston for the division with or without DJ, but they would be probably be several games behind Houston and have to fight Tampa down to the wire with a replacement level player in his place.


DJ has been great and could be an MVP in the post season, but he's not worth 20 plus games of wins over a replacement player, so no we would not be kissing Boston's anything without him.






ok... I think you're wrong. Do you watch games or stat sheets?




That's your best response ? Really ? 


I have been watching and attending Yankee games every year for almost 50 years but I also am interested in baseball stats and modern analytics as they help my understanding and enjoyment of the game.


People have responded to you with stats, the same stats that every team in the league uses to help evaluate players and you come back with nothing to back up your opinion other than I don't agree and a thin skinned response.


So if you think DJL is worth 18-20 wins by himself, how many is Gio worth 15-18 ? How about Judge 10-12 wins ? how about Torres 18-20 ? With that math you are already at 60-70 wins of value not even considering anyone else on the team.


I understand people that just like to watch the games and don't have any interest in diving into the stats, but often those same people around here seem to think they know more than people that look at the stats, the same stats that every teams employs.


I would never base my opinion on a player on just what I see. How do you think the Yankees have been so successfully recently in aquiring players like Volt, Tauchman, Gio, DJL, etc. by using old school scouting methods and modern analytics. You won't be very successful if you only use 1 method.


You also won't be very convincing trying to have a discussion about a players value if you don't both watch the games and try have a basic understanding of baseball stats including modern analytics. And forget about my opinion, I guarantee you no one that works in baseball would agree that DJL has been worth 20 wins alone this season.


So, If you want to have a discussion or debate about DLJ or some other players value, give me some facts or stats or something to back up your opinion.


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