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Trump impeachment inquiry is coming
3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 11:55AM #21
NW
Posts: 1,186

Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:53AM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:41AM, NW wrote:


I've never heard of such an organization.  It seems they are a fringe group and kind of flaky from what you described.  Personally, I think there is a "deep state" of sorts and a lot of the yapping that we see from political higher-ups on both sides is just for show.  I think the Clintons, Bushes, Obama, Schumer, Cheney, etc. are all in on it.  I think Trump is a threat to them because he doesn't follow their rules.  


I think Trump is also a threat to the people because not only does he not follow their rules, he doesn't follow any rules.  I think if Trump came out a few months ago and told the people that he is going to withhold or slow play aid to the Ukraine because there was evidence that Biden used his influence as VP and American money for his personal advantage, there would be no issue.  The fact that he did it secretly is a violation of his responsibility as President.  You can't correct a wrong with a wrong.




It's actually quite mainstream. On the left it's mocked (for obvious reasons) and on the right they just don't talk about it, they just use all the talking points. 


So you're saying that open collusion with another country isn't a problem, it's only when it's done secretly that you have a problem with it. Got it




It's not collusion to ask another country to investigate what a US official did while representing the US.  

3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 12:05PM #22
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:55AM, NW wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:53AM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:41AM, NW wrote:


I've never heard of such an organization.  It seems they are a fringe group and kind of flaky from what you described.  Personally, I think there is a "deep state" of sorts and a lot of the yapping that we see from political higher-ups on both sides is just for show.  I think the Clintons, Bushes, Obama, Schumer, Cheney, etc. are all in on it.  I think Trump is a threat to them because he doesn't follow their rules.  


I think Trump is also a threat to the people because not only does he not follow their rules, he doesn't follow any rules.  I think if Trump came out a few months ago and told the people that he is going to withhold or slow play aid to the Ukraine because there was evidence that Biden used his influence as VP and American money for his personal advantage, there would be no issue.  The fact that he did it secretly is a violation of his responsibility as President.  You can't correct a wrong with a wrong.




It's actually quite mainstream. On the left it's mocked (for obvious reasons) and on the right they just don't talk about it, they just use all the talking points. 


So you're saying that open collusion with another country isn't a problem, it's only when it's done secretly that you have a problem with it. Got it




It's not collusion to ask another country to investigate what a US official did while representing the US.  




It's collusion to ask another country to take actions that would affect an upcoming election. 


I understand this isn't black and white for you. Yes, there is arguably a legitimate reason to seek an investigation. But inherently tied to that legitimate reason is an illegitimate reason that it has political implications on the upcoming election. Therefor, it's a violation of election regulations to do so. Therefor you can't do it


You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 12:34PM #23
laurenfrances
Posts: 36,845

Incredible..the first entity DNI went in handling the Whistleblower dilemma is the White House? Is the acting DNI mentally challenged? After all the complaint/allegations is in reference to Trump/Barr.


One doesn't have to be the sharpest knife in the tool box to see the irony in all this...


In the days that followed..multiple WH officials intervened to lock down all records of that phone call. 

3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 12:43PM #24
NW
Posts: 1,186

Sep 26, 2019 -- 12:05PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:55AM, NW wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:53AM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:41AM, NW wrote:


I've never heard of such an organization.  It seems they are a fringe group and kind of flaky from what you described.  Personally, I think there is a "deep state" of sorts and a lot of the yapping that we see from political higher-ups on both sides is just for show.  I think the Clintons, Bushes, Obama, Schumer, Cheney, etc. are all in on it.  I think Trump is a threat to them because he doesn't follow their rules.  


I think Trump is also a threat to the people because not only does he not follow their rules, he doesn't follow any rules.  I think if Trump came out a few months ago and told the people that he is going to withhold or slow play aid to the Ukraine because there was evidence that Biden used his influence as VP and American money for his personal advantage, there would be no issue.  The fact that he did it secretly is a violation of his responsibility as President.  You can't correct a wrong with a wrong.




It's actually quite mainstream. On the left it's mocked (for obvious reasons) and on the right they just don't talk about it, they just use all the talking points. 


So you're saying that open collusion with another country isn't a problem, it's only when it's done secretly that you have a problem with it. Got it




It's not collusion to ask another country to investigate what a US official did while representing the US.  




It's collusion to ask another country to take actions that would affect an upcoming election. 


I understand this isn't black and white for you. Yes, there is arguably a legitimate reason to seek an investigation. But inherently tied to that legitimate reason is an illegitimate reason that it has political implications on the upcoming election. Therefor, it's a violation of election regulations to do so. Therefor you can't do it





So what exactly do you expect Trump to do?  I suppose he could have asked the DOJ to investigate and have them cooperate with Ukranian intelligence, but that's still "his" organization and it would be blasted as a witch hunt.  I suppose he could have gone to the stump and said we have credible evidence that Biden committed a crime but because of some hazy rules, we're not allowed to investigate it.  Again, it would be dismissed as a witch hunt.  


As an American voter, I want to know what Biden did.  I don't see a way for that to happen without the current government investigating it.  Your assertion is that the current government can't investigate it.  That's what I see as wrong.

3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 1:20PM #25
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Sep 26, 2019 -- 12:43PM, NW wrote:


So what exactly do you expect Trump to do?  I suppose he could have asked the DOJ to investigate and have them cooperate with Ukranian intelligence, but that's still "his" organization and it would be blasted as a witch hunt.  I suppose he could have gone to the stump and said we have credible evidence that Biden committed a crime but because of some hazy rules, we're not allowed to investigate it.  Again, it would be dismissed as a witch hunt.  


As an American voter, I want to know what Biden did.  I don't see a way for that to happen without the current government investigating it.  Your assertion is that the current government can't investigate it.  That's what I see as wrong.




When Trump was running for President in 2016, American voters did not know there was an ongoing investigation as to whether he and/or his campaign had committed crimes. 


Are you saying it would have been better for Obama to have come out and said "we have credible evidence that Trump is committing crimes, but because of some hazy rules we aren't allowed to disclose it right now"?


Obama wasn't even allowed to disclose that Russia had been actively hacking and meddling with the election. 


I'm extremely bothered by the fact you see not investigating biden as wrong, but you don't see "coercing a foreign country to dig up dirt on your political opponant" as wrong. What is it with you conservatives and your affinity for vigilante justice? 


The law is the law. Breaking the law to uphold the law is still breaking the law. This isn't Dirty Harry, this is a country that is supposed to have law and order

You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 1:30PM #26
NW
Posts: 1,186

Sep 26, 2019 -- 1:20PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 12:43PM, NW wrote:


So what exactly do you expect Trump to do?  I suppose he could have asked the DOJ to investigate and have them cooperate with Ukranian intelligence, but that's still "his" organization and it would be blasted as a witch hunt.  I suppose he could have gone to the stump and said we have credible evidence that Biden committed a crime but because of some hazy rules, we're not allowed to investigate it.  Again, it would be dismissed as a witch hunt.  


As an American voter, I want to know what Biden did.  I don't see a way for that to happen without the current government investigating it.  Your assertion is that the current government can't investigate it.  That's what I see as wrong.




When Trump was running for President in 2016, American voters did not know there was an ongoing investigation as to whether he and/or his campaign had committed crimes. 


Are you saying it would have been better for Obama to have come out and said "we have credible evidence that Trump is committing crimes, but because of some hazy rules we aren't allowed to disclose it right now"?


Obama wasn't even allowed to disclose that Russia had been actively hacking and meddling with the election. 


I'm extremely bothered by the fact you see not investigating biden as wrong, but you don't see "coercing a foreign country to dig up dirt on your political opponant" as wrong. What is it with you conservatives and your affinity for vigilante justice? 


The law is the law. Breaking the law to uphold the law is still breaking the law. This isn't Dirty Harry, this is a country that is supposed to have law and order




Obama broke the law to spy on Trump's campaign, using taxpayer dollars to do so.  He could not disclose this information because he would have been found to be guilty of an impeachable offense.  The Clinton campaign did, before the election, try to connect Trump to Russia and failed (just as the several subsequent investigations have).  Obama couldn't have disclosed that Russia was "hacking" the election because it was proven that they didn't.


Again, digging up the truth is not "digging up dirt".  Biden deserves to be investigated and the people deserve to know the truth.  The American people are sick of politicians hiding the truth behind closed doors.


3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 1:43PM #27
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Sep 26, 2019 -- 1:30PM, NW wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 1:20PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 12:43PM, NW wrote:


So what exactly do you expect Trump to do?  I suppose he could have asked the DOJ to investigate and have them cooperate with Ukranian intelligence, but that's still "his" organization and it would be blasted as a witch hunt.  I suppose he could have gone to the stump and said we have credible evidence that Biden committed a crime but because of some hazy rules, we're not allowed to investigate it.  Again, it would be dismissed as a witch hunt.  


As an American voter, I want to know what Biden did.  I don't see a way for that to happen without the current government investigating it.  Your assertion is that the current government can't investigate it.  That's what I see as wrong.




When Trump was running for President in 2016, American voters did not know there was an ongoing investigation as to whether he and/or his campaign had committed crimes. 


Are you saying it would have been better for Obama to have come out and said "we have credible evidence that Trump is committing crimes, but because of some hazy rules we aren't allowed to disclose it right now"?


Obama wasn't even allowed to disclose that Russia had been actively hacking and meddling with the election. 


I'm extremely bothered by the fact you see not investigating biden as wrong, but you don't see "coercing a foreign country to dig up dirt on your political opponant" as wrong. What is it with you conservatives and your affinity for vigilante justice? 


The law is the law. Breaking the law to uphold the law is still breaking the law. This isn't Dirty Harry, this is a country that is supposed to have law and order




Obama broke the law to spy on Trump's campaign, using taxpayer dollars to do so.  He could not disclose this information because he would have been found to be guilty of an impeachable offense.  The Clinton campaign did, before the election, try to connect Trump to Russia and failed (just as the several subsequent investigations have).  Obama couldn't have disclosed that Russia was "hacking" the election because it was proven that they didn't.


Again, digging up the truth is not "digging up dirt".  Biden deserves to be investigated and the people deserve to know the truth.  The American people are sick of politicians hiding the truth behind closed doors.




The highlights in the above are things you're wrong about. You're either mistaken or lying. Honestly i don't even really care which it is


Digging up the truth is still digging up dirt if it's something that can negatively affect your political opponent. 


FFS dan, there was an entire lengthy investigation into whether Trump colluded with a foreign country to help his campaign. *This* is *that* all over again, except this time we have a paper trail. Elections have to be free from foreign influence. *This* is corruption. *This* is dirt, and if Trump had a D behind his name you'd be losing your sh!t over it

You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 1:54PM #28
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:11AM, NW wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 11:03AM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 10:55AM, NW wrote:


In this case, just as in the Russia case, it seems to me that Democrats are afraid of the truth.  The Russian "interference" brought to light the truth.  The Ukranian inquiry would have brought to light the truth.  If Biden extorted the Ukranian government as VP in 2016 to COVER UP the truth, we need to know about it.  That's a hell of a lot more significant than Trump extorting the Ukranian government to FIND the truth.




Dan: "It's okay that Trump violated the constitution because Biden did bad stuff too"




I didn't say that either violated The Constitution because quite frankly I don't find this particular situation addressed in The Constitution.  I was just making a statement that it's interesting that in both cases, the Democrats are trying to cover up the truth while the Trump campaign/administration were finding the truth.




If Trump is so interested in finding the truth, why were there so many examples in the mueller report of him obstructing justice? 




You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 2:10PM #29
NW
Posts: 1,186

Sep 26, 2019 -- 1:43PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 1:30PM, NW wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 1:20PM, felipe27point5 wrote:


Sep 26, 2019 -- 12:43PM, NW wrote:


So what exactly do you expect Trump to do?  I suppose he could have asked the DOJ to investigate and have them cooperate with Ukranian intelligence, but that's still "his" organization and it would be blasted as a witch hunt.  I suppose he could have gone to the stump and said we have credible evidence that Biden committed a crime but because of some hazy rules, we're not allowed to investigate it.  Again, it would be dismissed as a witch hunt.  


As an American voter, I want to know what Biden did.  I don't see a way for that to happen without the current government investigating it.  Your assertion is that the current government can't investigate it.  That's what I see as wrong.




When Trump was running for President in 2016, American voters did not know there was an ongoing investigation as to whether he and/or his campaign had committed crimes. 


Are you saying it would have been better for Obama to have come out and said "we have credible evidence that Trump is committing crimes, but because of some hazy rules we aren't allowed to disclose it right now"?


Obama wasn't even allowed to disclose that Russia had been actively hacking and meddling with the election. 


I'm extremely bothered by the fact you see not investigating biden as wrong, but you don't see "coercing a foreign country to dig up dirt on your political opponant" as wrong. What is it with you conservatives and your affinity for vigilante justice? 


The law is the law. Breaking the law to uphold the law is still breaking the law. This isn't Dirty Harry, this is a country that is supposed to have law and order




Obama broke the law to spy on Trump's campaign, using taxpayer dollars to do so.  He could not disclose this information because he would have been found to be guilty of an impeachable offense.  The Clinton campaign did, before the election, try to connect Trump to Russia and failed (just as the several subsequent investigations have).  Obama couldn't have disclosed that Russia was "hacking" the election because it was proven that they didn't.


Again, digging up the truth is not "digging up dirt".  Biden deserves to be investigated and the people deserve to know the truth.  The American people are sick of politicians hiding the truth behind closed doors.




The highlights in the above are things you're wrong about. You're either mistaken or lying. Honestly i don't even really care which it is


Digging up the truth is still digging up dirt if it's something that can negatively affect your political opponent. 


FFS dan, there was an entire lengthy investigation into whether Trump colluded with a foreign country to help his campaign. *This* is *that* all over again, except this time we have a paper trail. Elections have to be free from foreign influence. *This* is corruption. *This* is dirt, and if Trump had a D behind his name you'd be losing your sh!t over it




Are you suggesting that we shouldn't know the truth about our political candidates if that truth is only known by a foreign country?

3 months ago  ::  Sep 26, 2019 - 2:27PM #30
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Sep 26, 2019 -- 2:10PM, NW wrote:


Are you suggesting that we shouldn't know the truth about our political candidates if that truth is only known by a foreign country?




Okay, let's say there's a really bad dude. A modern day Al Capone type dude. Like was the case with Al, this dude is good at covering his tracks so there's nothing to pin all these murders and extortions back to him as the guy who ordered them.


An FBI agent breaks into his hideout. No warrant, no grounds for entering the premises - he didn't even attempt to get a warrant. While he's in there, he records this bad dude discussing all the people he's ordered to be murdered, and he's disclosed facts about the murders that nobody could have possibly known if they weren't involved.


Should the recording be used as evidence against the bad dude to put him away and make society safer? Or is the evidence inadmissable because it wasn't gotten the proper way and the FBI agent broke the law to do so.


If you answer mine, i think you'll find the answer to your question. And please just answer, i know there's an obvious pivot to Obama in there for you but i'm hoping you can concentrate and avoid distractions

You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
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