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So glad Steinbrenner is "commited to winning"
4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 8:25AM #11
cleanuphtr12
Posts: 1,262

Oct 16, 2019 -- 8:07AM, Tippy wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 7:30AM, luvdayanks wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 7:26AM, Tippy wrote:


Those deals should have been done. And we are witnessing the fruits of those SMART deals first hand and it's gonna cost us yet another pennant.




Okay Mr  second guessing ,  should have, could have, explain  how those deals should  have been done. This explanation  should be  hilarious.




Elementary. Trade Fowler, Mateo, and Kapriellan for Verlander and absorb most of his contract, more than what the Tigers were offering.


For Cole, trade Justus Sheffield and the same mid level prospects the Astros did to the Pirates.  Tell me, how are those guys doing for the Pirates today? The Pirates still stink.


Both Verlander and Cole could have been had without giving up Gleber Torres.






This isn't a video game.  The Cole trade isn't even remotely realistic.  The Yankees already had Frazier and Chance Adams on the table - BEFORE you say something stupid, this is while they both still had a lot of prospect shine - which was a better trade than margainal prospect in Colin Moran and a package of mid level guys.  Despite having the better package on the table, the Pirates wanted the Yankees to add Andujar.  Don't rewrite history.  Sheffield wouldn't have gotten it done.  It was going to take Andujar, Frazier and Adams which was SIGNIFICANTLY more than what the Astros offered.  



If you want to be a brainless troll with 20/20 hindsight just whine about how dumb they were for not trading Andujar, Adams and Frazier for Cole.  Why am I doing your job for you?

_______________________________________________

Please note:  I'm arguing against your post, not against you as a person.  I respect your right to have a different opinion even if I completely disagree with every word you wrote.
4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 9:10AM #12
njyf
Posts: 1,000

Why are you guys arguing over what has occurred already? It's not like you can go back in time. Even if you win, nothing changes. Verlander and Cole will still be Astros. Cashman will still be GM and Hal will still be rich.


Also, you guys love to call Tippy and others "trolls" but yet you guys keep on feeding them. Why is it so hard to just ignore them. If you ignore them, they go away from being ignored.

4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 9:15AM #13
njyf
Posts: 1,000

If they don't win it this year, what's the big deal? You get a new chance every year. Laughing

4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 9:40AM #14
bumper
Posts: 6,806

Oct 16, 2019 -- 12:37AM, Jon wrote:


Verlander + Cole or Gray + Happ.


Steinbrenner: "We can't spend that much!"


Cashman: "Okay, well, Happ and Gray have better fWARs than those two anyway."




once again here are your posts on verlander at the time of the trade deadline in '17.


Jun 28, 2017 -- 11:25PM, JonahFalcon wrote:


Who's going to pay the $28M per year for Verlander?




Jun 28, 2017 -- 11:34PM, JonahFalcon wrote:


Keep in mind, 2016 was an aberration -- and he also gave up 30 HR. He led the majors in ER given up in 2014.


A 1.447 WHIP and 4.47 ERA for $28 million?


He's also given up 1 HR per 16.5 AB in Yankee Stadium for his entire career, even when he was at his best.


That's 39-42 HRs in a full season.




oh and you liked sonny gray at the time.


Aug 19, 2017 -- 10:31PM, JonahFalcon wrote:


He (gray) has something like a 1.88 ERA in his last 10 starts.



Aug 20, 2017 -- 1:30PM, JonahFalcon wrote:





it's one thing to second guess (and whine), it's another to second guess about the things you were wrong about at the time.


sure we would all luv to have verlander and cole NOW in hindsight. it's been explained to you many times why it didn't happened (and you yourself agreed). but apparently none of that seeped into your mini-brain.


we have to play the hand we have and yeah it doesn't look but they are still games to play.




4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 10:44AM #15
Lola
Posts: 24,911

Oct 16, 2019 -- 9:40AM, bumper wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 12:37AM, Jon wrote:


Verlander + Cole or Gray + Happ.


Steinbrenner: "We can't spend that much!"


Cashman: "Okay, well, Happ and Gray have better fWARs than those two anyway."




once again here are your posts on verlander at the time of the trade deadline in '17.


Jun 28, 2017 -- 11:25PM, JonahFalcon wrote:


Who's going to pay the $28M per year for Verlander?




Jun 28, 2017 -- 11:34PM, JonahFalcon wrote:


Keep in mind, 2016 was an aberration -- and he also gave up 30 HR. He led the majors in ER given up in 2014.


A 1.447 WHIP and 4.47 ERA for $28 million?


He's also given up 1 HR per 16.5 AB in Yankee Stadium for his entire career, even when he was at his best.


That's 39-42 HRs in a full season.




oh and you liked sonny gray at the time.


Aug 19, 2017 -- 10:31PM, JonahFalcon wrote:


He (gray) has something like a 1.88 ERA in his last 10 starts.



Aug 20, 2017 -- 1:30PM, JonahFalcon wrote:





it's one thing to second guess (and whine), it's another to second guess about the things you were wrong about at the time.


sure we would all luv to have verlander and cole NOW in hindsight. it's been explained to you many times why it didn't happened (and you yourself agreed). but apparently none of that seeped into your mini-brain.


we have to play the hand we have and yeah it doesn't look but they are still games to play.







Im not sure what’s worse... whiners or flip flopper!

4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 11:08AM #16
felipe27point5
Posts: 2,645

Oct 16, 2019 -- 12:37AM, Jon wrote:


Verlander + Cole or Gray + Happ.


Steinbrenner: "We can't spend that much!"


Cashman: "Okay, well, Happ and Gray have better fWARs than those two anyway."




"But even if they had acquired Verlander + Cole, Roethschild would have wrecked them and Boone would have pulled them too late" isn't that what you'd also be saying?

You are welcome to recall my posts when it becomes that i'm proven wrong as long as we judge it on the merits of what we knew to be true at the time it was posted.
4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 12:39PM #17
white_wolf
Posts: 177

Oct 16, 2019 -- 8:25AM, cleanuphtr12 wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 8:07AM, Tippy wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 7:30AM, luvdayanks wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 7:26AM, Tippy wrote:


Those deals should have been done. And we are witnessing the fruits of those SMART deals first hand and it's gonna cost us yet another pennant.




Okay Mr  second guessing ,  should have, could have, explain  how those deals should  have been done. This explanation  should be  hilarious.




Elementary. Trade Fowler, Mateo, and Kapriellan for Verlander and absorb most of his contract, more than what the Tigers were offering.


For Cole, trade Justus Sheffield and the same mid level prospects the Astros did to the Pirates.  Tell me, how are those guys doing for the Pirates today? The Pirates still stink.


Both Verlander and Cole could have been had without giving up Gleber Torres.






This isn't a video game.  The Cole trade isn't even remotely realistic.  The Yankees already had Frazier and Chance Adams on the table - BEFORE you say something stupid, this is while they both still had a lot of prospect shine - which was a better trade than margainal prospect in Colin Moran and a package of mid level guys.  Despite having the better package on the table, the Pirates wanted the Yankees to add Andujar.  Don't rewrite history.  Sheffield wouldn't have gotten it done.  It was going to take Andujar, Frazier and Adams which was SIGNIFICANTLY more than what the Astros offered.  



If you want to be a brainless troll with 20/20 hindsight just whine about how dumb they were for not trading Andujar, Adams and Frazier for Cole.  Why am I doing your job for you?




All of this is a moot point because it's over and done with, but I guess I'll throw in my two cents.


First, I agree that Sheffield would not have gotten it done, but that is because (unless I am misremembering) the Pirates wanted someone for 3B. That is why they insisted on Torres (a nonstarter of course) or Andujar. They took a lesser package (of course that is still subjective), but got a 3Bman from the Astros.


With that said, regardless of the quality of the packages, Cashman absolutely should have made that deal (Andujar, Adams, and Frazier for Cole). I thought so then, and I think so now. The Yankees needed pitching. They needed a top of the rotation guy. The Yankees had no real room for Frazier after acquiring Stanton, and Adams never really was all that impressive. The only real loss would have been Andujar, but you can't get a top of the rotation guy by giving up scraps. People can call it hindsight all they want, but losing out on Cole is Cashman's biggest blunder of the last few years.

4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 1:08PM #18
bumper
Posts: 6,806

Oct 16, 2019 -- 12:39PM, white_wolf wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 8:25AM, cleanuphtr12 wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 8:07AM, Tippy wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 7:30AM, luvdayanks wrote:


Oct 16, 2019 -- 7:26AM, Tippy wrote:


Those deals should have been done. And we are witnessing the fruits of those SMART deals first hand and it's gonna cost us yet another pennant.




Okay Mr  second guessing ,  should have, could have, explain  how those deals should  have been done. This explanation  should be  hilarious.




Elementary. Trade Fowler, Mateo, and Kapriellan for Verlander and absorb most of his contract, more than what the Tigers were offering.


For Cole, trade Justus Sheffield and the same mid level prospects the Astros did to the Pirates.  Tell me, how are those guys doing for the Pirates today? The Pirates still stink.


Both Verlander and Cole could have been had without giving up Gleber Torres.






This isn't a video game.  The Cole trade isn't even remotely realistic.  The Yankees already had Frazier and Chance Adams on the table - BEFORE you say something stupid, this is while they both still had a lot of prospect shine - which was a better trade than margainal prospect in Colin Moran and a package of mid level guys.  Despite having the better package on the table, the Pirates wanted the Yankees to add Andujar.  Don't rewrite history.  Sheffield wouldn't have gotten it done.  It was going to take Andujar, Frazier and Adams which was SIGNIFICANTLY more than what the Astros offered.  



If you want to be a brainless troll with 20/20 hindsight just whine about how dumb they were for not trading Andujar, Adams and Frazier for Cole.  Why am I doing your job for you?




All of this is a moot point because it's over and done with, but I guess I'll throw in my two cents.


First, I agree that Sheffield would not have gotten it done, but that is because (unless I am misremembering) the Pirates wanted someone for 3B. That is why they insisted on Torres (a nonstarter of course) or Andujar. They took a lesser package (of course that is still subjective), but got a 3Bman from the Astros.


With that said, regardless of the quality of the packages, Cashman absolutely should have made that deal (Andujar, Adams, and Frazier for Cole). I thought so then, and I think so now. The Yankees needed pitching. They needed a top of the rotation guy. The Yankees had no real room for Frazier after acquiring Stanton, and Adams never really was all that impressive. The only real loss would have been Andujar, but you can't get a top of the rotation guy by giving up scraps. People can call it hindsight all they want, but losing out on Cole is Cashman's biggest blunder of the last few years.




cole was not a top of rotation at that time. while he had a CY caliber season in 2015, he'd come off unimpressive 2 seasons where he averaged a 4.12 ERA 1.32 WHIP 31 HRs with just 8.3 Ks a game. would have gotten run out of NY if he put up those numbers and as it turned out andujar was essentially ROY and torres has turned into a franchise player. certainly an opportunity missed but there was no way to predict the beast he'd turn into. kudos to astros for having the foresight (as they did w verlander) for trading for him.

4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 2:12PM #19
Paterson
Posts: 6,588

      We just lost two games in a row...one of which we scored 2 runs and the second where we scored 1. I don't care if we bring back Seaver, Gibson and Carlton...we are not going far if we average 1.5 runs per game.


     Score 7 runs and the pitching problems disappear.

4 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2019 - 2:39PM #20
luvdayanks
Posts: 27,332

Oct 16, 2019 -- 2:12PM, Paterson wrote:


      We just lost two games in a row...one of which we scored 2 runs and the second where we scored 1. I don't care if we bring back Seaver, Gibson and Carlton...we are not going far if we average 1.5 runs per game.


     Score 7 runs and the pitching problems disappear.




BINGO!!!!!

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