Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 6 of 11  •  Prev 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 11 Next
Sign Gerrit Cole
2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 6:07PM #51
Rob
Posts: 392

Oct 20, 2019 -- 5:47PM, luvdayanks wrote:


Oct 20, 2019 -- 4:27PM, chl45 wrote:


Hal is gun shy about big money contracts considering some of the waste he has seen from Igawa to Stanton and the ones like Ellsbury in between. The last Arod contract wasn't exactly a smart move either and it got Hank banished to the horse farm. Literally. He saw the same Post Season we di but he won't make a knee jerk decision based on it. He is not his Dad. What he will do is analyze Cole, and if he thinks he will get value for the $ he will spend it, it is really that simple. I can't say I blame him one bit. If Cole is to far over the fair market value for a pitcher he will pass. I still say Coles market will be set by him, and him alone, or his agent, AFTER they see what he does in the WS. If he is unhittable the price goes up. If not he will get Verlander Money or maybe a little more.


Speaking of value and money, and value I would love to hear why the Trout lovers and Bregman lovers still think he deserves the MVP award more than DJ LeMahieu. The writers that vote are lunkheads until they define valuable to mean most value to a winning team!!! Bregman did nothing in the Post Season against the Yankees, look what DJ did. To me he is the MVP after that performance in the PS especially  against the Astro's. He was the best player on the field on both sides, including over that super roidheaded midget!



 
Post season  doesn't  count in MVP voting only regular  season




And the MVP has very little to do with actual value of a player to his team. To me the MVP is the guy who if yiu replaced him with a league average guy would hurt his team the most.  Trout is arguably teh best position payer in baseball bjut the Angels were a lousy team with Trout.  They would be a lousy team without him.  How many fewer games do you think the Yankees win if you repace LeMahieu with a league average guy capable of playing 2B/1B?


The worst injustice in MVP voting ws 1978.  Rice won the MVP, but Boston still finishes 2d without him.  Take Guidry (who was somehting like 25-3)  from the Yankees and they don't even get close to Boston.

2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 6:21PM #52
yankoldfan
Posts: 8,575

Oct 20, 2019 -- 6:06PM, BoogiedownBx wrote:


Oct 20, 2019 -- 12:42AM, qwik3457 wrote:


I don't care.


I don't care about Hal's budget.


I don't care about his payroll tax burden or his debt burden.


I don't care about the last half of the contract that's going to kill the team starting in about 2024. I know it will. I don't care.


I don't care that he might not be as effective in Yankee Stadium as in Minute Maid Park, that he might not be as effective because the Astros' team defense is better than the Yankees' team defense.


I don't care that his innings and age are starting to pile up and he becomes more likely to suffer a serious arm injury with each season that goes by. I understand all of this.


And I really, really, really don't care that 'they don't need Cole because they already have Paxton, Severino, Tanaka, Montgomery and Happ, and oh, boy, King is on the way, and Garcia is on the way and we have five guys in A-ball that throw 99'. That dog won't hunt.


=======================================


If they want to win a title with this group, they need one elite starter that can give them 200-220 innings a season. They can't win with this 5-8 elite relievers thing. It doesn't work. The team is just starting to age. Its window will close faster than they think. 


The need to get Cole to anchor the rotation. They need him to throw at the other team's aces. They need him to take heat off of Tanaka, Severino and Paxton. They need to get him to weaken the Astros.


The Astros aren't going anywhere. The Dodgers aren't going anywhere. The Rays are closing fast. There are other teams with great farm systems that are closing fast. If they want to win a title...sign Gerrit Cole. It might not be enough. It might not be sufficient, but it is necessary.


No excuses. No, oh he wants too much money. No, oh we were so close but the Angels wanted him more. No, oh we were willing to go 6 years, but not 7.


=======================================


Sign Gerrit Cole. That is all. 








Everything you just said Qwik, and then some. Cole is the difference between the Yankees set up correctly to win it all many of the next 5 years, and going home early in the playoffs, especially when you consider that Houston, Boston and Tampa Bay are going to be our main adversaries.




For sure the AL east is a very tough division, Boston had their normal bad year after they won it all, Tampa Bay is going to be a very good team, they have some really good pitching, in fact they led the AL in ERA, that alone will make them a challenge, along with this Yankee team, minus or plus who ever the Font Office goes after should be as good as this year... It's always the team that gets out fo the gate and doesn't get too far behind will be a tough team... If they all get out fo the gate fairly even it could be a dog fight all year to the end...


I've said and I'll continue to feel the AL East is as tough of division as there is in baseball from top to bottom, the only weak team is the O's, even the Jays are going to be better, they have a few very good young players to build around and could be a force in the next couple years to come...

2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 6:38PM #53
chl45
Posts: 1,247

Oct 20, 2019 -- 5:47PM, luvdayanks wrote:


Oct 20, 2019 -- 4:27PM, chl45 wrote:


Hal is gun shy about big money contracts considering some of the waste he has seen from Igawa to Stanton and the ones like Ellsbury in between. The last Arod contract wasn't exactly a smart move either and it got Hank banished to the horse farm. Literally. He saw the same Post Season we di but he won't make a knee jerk decision based on it. He is not his Dad. What he will do is analyze Cole, and if he thinks he will get value for the $ he will spend it, it is really that simple. I can't say I blame him one bit. If Cole is to far over the fair market value for a pitcher he will pass. I still say Coles market will be set by him, and him alone, or his agent, AFTER they see what he does in the WS. If he is unhittable the price goes up. If not he will get Verlander Money or maybe a little more.


Speaking of value and money, and value I would love to hear why the Trout lovers and Bregman lovers still think he deserves the MVP award more than DJ LeMahieu. The writers that vote are lunkheads until they define valuable to mean most value to a winning team!!! Bregman did nothing in the Post Season against the Yankees, look what DJ did. To me he is the MVP after that performance in the PS especially  against the Astro's. He was the best player on the field on both sides, including over that super roidheaded midget!



 
Post season  doesn't  count in MVP voting only regular  season




I hear ya, and I realize that. I think they should wait until after the WS to vote on the MVP. I think Dj made the biggest impact to make the Yankees of 2019 what they were, and where they got, and it was him that with one swing of the bat in the 9th that would have got them to the WS and one pitch by CHapman that took that away from the Yankees and DJ.  If that doesn't make DJ an MVP coming up big all season and then doing that, then the MVP to me no longer means a thing. It's a popularity contest instead.


 I am a huge Judge fan, Huge But lets be honest here. Has  Aaron Judge or Gary Sanchez or Stanton come up big, ever, ever, in a big spot in a big game?  Yet all we hear about is how great they are. Why is that? I will admit Judge is a great player. But let's be honest. The guy walked and hit singles all post season and it helped, and he scored a ton of runs by doing that. But it wasn't what he is paid to do. It isn't what he COULD have done, it is what the Yankees MADE him do by hitting him 2nd.


That's the definitionn of a number two hitter since the damn beginning of baseball damn near, and Aaron could be more than that taken out of that spot. DJ could be even a bigger producer into super star status if he wasn't leading off but he had to lead off, because we don't have a real lead off hitter. We need to get one and hit DJ 3rd. Can you imagine that guy hitting 3rd with the same numbers he had on base wise and slugging and OPS? He would definitely have beat Trout and Bregman for MVP for sure no doubt about it.


Again I am redundant with that, but it is the truth and so far with him 2nd and now DJ leading off did we make it to the WS once again? No! So, I would love to see them change that. Time to stop being pig headed and change it up! Analytics do not work in short stressful series. Period. The Astro's ran out the same line up every damn day against us except for Reddick. Why? Ours changed every day. Why? who won? I don't think I am wrong. Looks to me they are because we have won nothing WS wise in 10 years. Time to do something different. Want me to name the line ups we had in 96 97 98 99 2000? ALmost every day? Did we win? Ok. I can name the line ups we had in 76 77 78 as well. Just trying to make a point, that's all.

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 7:12PM #54
manbot
Posts: 609

Oct 20, 2019 -- 2:45PM, njyf wrote:


^ Having Germán would have made all the difference. Just lousy luck/timing. I guess it was not meant to be this year.




German had a 4.35 ERA as a starter during the regular season 

2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 8:27PM #55
bumper
Posts: 6,728

Oct 20, 2019 -- 6:38PM, chl45 wrote:


Oct 20, 2019 -- 5:47PM, luvdayanks wrote:


Oct 20, 2019 -- 4:27PM, chl45 wrote:


Hal is gun shy about big money contracts considering some of the waste he has seen from Igawa to Stanton and the ones like Ellsbury in between. The last Arod contract wasn't exactly a smart move either and it got Hank banished to the horse farm. Literally. He saw the same Post Season we di but he won't make a knee jerk decision based on it. He is not his Dad. What he will do is analyze Cole, and if he thinks he will get value for the $ he will spend it, it is really that simple. I can't say I blame him one bit. If Cole is to far over the fair market value for a pitcher he will pass. I still say Coles market will be set by him, and him alone, or his agent, AFTER they see what he does in the WS. If he is unhittable the price goes up. If not he will get Verlander Money or maybe a little more.


Speaking of value and money, and value I would love to hear why the Trout lovers and Bregman lovers still think he deserves the MVP award more than DJ LeMahieu. The writers that vote are lunkheads until they define valuable to mean most value to a winning team!!! Bregman did nothing in the Post Season against the Yankees, look what DJ did. To me he is the MVP after that performance in the PS especially  against the Astro's. He was the best player on the field on both sides, including over that super roidheaded midget!



 
Post season  doesn't  count in MVP voting only regular  season




I hear ya, and I realize that. I think they should wait until after the WS to vote on the MVP. I think Dj made the biggest impact to make the Yankees of 2019 what they were, and where they got, and it was him that with one swing of the bat in the 9th that would have got them to the WS and one pitch by CHapman that took that away from the Yankees and DJ.  If that doesn't make DJ an MVP coming up big all season and then doing that, then the MVP to me no longer means a thing. It's a popularity contest instead.


 I am a huge Judge fan, Huge But lets be honest here. Has  Aaron Judge or Gary Sanchez or Stanton come up big, ever, ever, in a big spot in a big game?  Yet all we hear about is how great they are. Why is that? I will admit Judge is a great player. But let's be honest. The guy walked and hit singles all post season and it helped, and he scored a ton of runs by doing that. But it wasn't what he is paid to do. It isn't what he COULD have done, it is what the Yankees MADE him do by hitting him 2nd.


That's the definitionn of a number two hitter since the damn beginning of baseball damn near, and Aaron could be more than that taken out of that spot. DJ could be even a bigger producer into super star status if he wasn't leading off but he had to lead off, because we don't have a real lead off hitter. We need to get one and hit DJ 3rd. Can you imagine that guy hitting 3rd with the same numbers he had on base wise and slugging and OPS? He would definitely have beat Trout and Bregman for MVP for sure no doubt about it.


Again I am redundant with that, but it is the truth and so far with him 2nd and now DJ leading off did we make it to the WS once again? No! So, I would love to see them change that. Time to stop being pig headed and change it up! Analytics do not work in short stressful series. Period. The Astro's ran out the same line up every damn day against us except for Reddick. Why? Ours changed every day. Why? who won? I don't think I am wrong. Looks to me they are because we have won nothing WS wise in 10 years. Time to do something different. Want me to name the line ups we had in 96 97 98 99 2000? ALmost every day? Did we win? Ok. I can name the line ups we had in 76 77 78 as well. Just trying to make a point, that's all.



when judge says he willing to take his walks and pass the baton, it's not because he trying to be an old school #2 hitter or told to do so by some computer geek, it's because instead of trying to force things, he's willing to take whether it's a walk or a single, what pitchers give him and trusts his teammates to get him in.


also, back in the day before DHs etc, you had a pitcher batting 9th and generally weaker hitters in the 7th & 8th spot, so of course you wanted your best hitters hitting 3rd & 4th to ensure they had men on base. now with a circular lineup like the yankees have, that is no longer as important. in fact, this season, other than the #1 & #2 batting order positions, the highest BA & OBP were from the 7-9 hitters.


as for your claim that we had the same lineup back in those championship years, wrong ... in 1978, we had different lineups in the 1st 4 games (then i stopped checking):


game 1


rivers
White
Munson
Reggie
Piniella
Nettles
Chambliss
Stanley
Dent


game 2


White
Thomasson
Munson
Reggie
Nettles
Piniella
Spencer
Doyle
Dent


in '96 we had different lineups in 5 out of the 6 games. here's the 1st 3:


Jeter
Boggs
bernie
Tino
Fielder
Straw
O’neill
Duncan
Leyritz

Raines
Boggs
Bernie
Tino
Fielder
O’neill
Duncan
Girardi
Jeter

Raines
Jeter
Bernie
Fielder
Hayes
Straw
Duncan
Girardi
Cone


so this year was no different.




2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 8:34PM #56
bumper
Posts: 6,728

regarding cole, sure i'd luv to sign him but my sense is that he's not the type of guy like harper or machado (or cano) who wants the most money. despite his yankee childhood fandom, with the kind of silly money that's gonna be thrown his way, he'll take the greg maddux route and go where he feels most comfortable, which means nearer to home on the west coast and probably the angels. 

2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 8:34PM #57
bigjeep
Posts: 134

He doesn't want to play in NY, it's that simple!    

2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 8:40PM #58
qwik3457
Posts: 11,935

Oct 20, 2019 -- 8:34PM, bigjeep wrote:


He doesn't want to play in NY, it's that simple!    




Maybe not, but we don't know for sure. And even if he doesn't, the Yanks can sure as heck jack his price up for whoever does eventually sign him.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 8:43PM #59
yank0428
Posts: 17,489

Interesting Sherman article. Not likely to happen I agree about his bullpen thoughts. Not cutting it in the postseason.


Adding Francisco Lindor and Gerrit Cole would put Yankees over the top






Deep breath. This is the hard time to take one. For two-thirds of teams the season ends in late September with usually a long runway to prepare for it. But if it ends in October, suddenly, after such laser focus on every pitch, the pain, the anger, the reflex to want to blow up a roster is intense.


So this from an MLB executive Sunday morning less than 12 hours after Jose Altuve walked off the Yankees into winter:


“Man, we are going to talk about how to fix the Yankees. They are terrific. They won 103 games. A few swings go a different way — I mean one or two — and they go to the World Series and we are not having this conversation. How about we talk about fixing the Tigers?”


Perspective in such a time is appreciated. Much has been made that the 2010s are the Yankees’ first calendar decade without a World Series appearance since the 1910s. But again, deep breath, they have the best winning percentage in the decade (.569) and are tied with the Dodgers for most playoff appearances (seven).


And for those who pine for the days of George Steinbrenner because that would not be good enough, reality check: The longest stretch in that time without a World Series appearance was 1982-95 when Steinbrenner was at his most Steinbrenner-iest, throwing around money with much rancor and no plan and turning the Yanks into a laughingstock. For those with a memory, you might recall that George, needing to brag about something, would note the Yankees had the majors’ best record during the title-less 1980s.


From 20,000 feet you can see a Yankees core that can be right back here next year. The problem is so can the Astros. In this era, these Yankees are the Pat Riley Knicks while the Astros are the Michael Jordan Bulls. This is the third time in five years Houston has eliminated New York. Those Knicks never found the second star to play with Patrick Ewing to better counteract Jordan. And these Yankees have not found enough starting pitching or athleticism to break Houston.


Since the Yankees’ core is strong and so is their ability to find high-caliber supplementary players (especially on offense), then this offseason is about internal decisions (potential free agents Dellin Betances, Aroldis Chapman, Brett Gardner, Didi Gregorius, Austin Romine) and external star hunting. The Yanks should mimic their post-2008 season strategy when they did not mess around and went to the top of the market for one starter (CC Sabathia) and one position player (Mark Teixeira) to become champions.



The most discussed area to fix is starting pitching and you will not complete this column without getting there — I see you, Gerrit Cole. But let’s start with a pipe dream: The Yanks should call the Indians and ask about Francisco Lindor.


Will he be available? Maybe not overtly as Cleveland tries to be discreet. But the Indians are a smart, proactive organization. They have conceded they cannot afford Lindor long term (think $300 million plus). He is a free agent after the 2021 season and his tab for the next two years will be $43 million-ish, perhaps more; an amount that does not work for Cleveland. This is the last best moment for the Indians to maximize return and set themselves up well for the near future. Teams with deeper farms such as the Braves and Dodgers could be in play and redirect their shortstops (Dansby Swanson or Cory Seager) to the Indians or elsewhere.


So I think the Yankees would have to say no Aaron Judge, Luis Severino or Gleyber Torres. Now shop away. Would it mean Jasson Dominguez, the 16-year-old they so recently gave $5.4 million and whose initial internal reports have made the Yanks swoon in joy? Sure. Miguel Andujar? Deivi Garcia? Taking on the $17.5 million in 2020 (plus a $1 million trade kicker) for Corey Kluber? Yes, yes, yes.


Look, the Yankees are ready to win now and Lindor is everything they need. A switch-hitting shortstop with power, speed, limited strikeouts, defensive excellence at short and proven postseason fearlessness. The Yanks’ athleticism improved from 2017 to ‘19. But on the same field, the Astros look like they’re playing fastbreak and the Yanks slow down to half-court.


The Yanks traditionally find the Indians’ ask too much (they couldn’t agree on Trevor Bauer in July, for example). But these teams have made big trades (Andrew Miller, per example). The Yanks have positional depth and lots of big righty arms in the system. Use it to get Lindor. Sign him long term. Make the positional cornerstone for the next five years Lindor and Torres up the middle plus Judge.


The Yanks need Lindor on defense and the bases. And the offense has to be more about hitters with power than power hitters such as Gary Sanchez and Giancarlo Stanton, who are so easily pitched to at this time of year. Judge might strike out a ton, but it is within the context of competitive at-bats, plus Judge brings an on-base and defensive acumen that Sanchez and Stanton do not. The Yanks endlessly defend the defense of Stanton and Sanchez. They must see something in the numbers not revealed by the eyes.


E

I think it is a legitimate question to ask if the Yanks can win a title with Sanchez behind the plate. And trading for Stanton — a George Steinbrenner-esque move, by the way — is going to be the biggest problem of this Yankees era. He has eight years and $244 million left, can’t stay healthy, can’t hit high-end pitching, and because of that and his no-trade clause he is borderline impossible to move. Does that contract either 1) scare the Yanks from another long commitment and/or 2) complicate adding another big deal and meeting whatever payroll mandate Hal Steinbrenner imposes?


Because that will impact any Cole pursuit. Scott Boras is the agent, he loves milestones and so the first pitcher to $300 million is probably in his sites and I would think eight years at $250 million is a minimum. As one top AL executive said, “With what we know now about stuff when it comes to spin, movement, velocity and his age (29) and his now great postseason resume, you can argue he is the greatest free agent pitcher ever.”


Again, a moment for perspective, with all the words about the Yankees’ rotation shortcomings and bullpen strategy, their 2.87 postseason ERA was better than the World Series participants with the great starters in Houston (3.49) and Washington (2.90 in the non-DH league). Still, Zack Britton and Tommy Kahnle both noted that the frequency of looks the Astros got at relievers with tinier repertoires, the easier the adjustments were. Simply, it is easier to assemble a three-piece jigsaw puzzle then eight-piece, and the great ace at this time of year limits how many relievers are needed and how often.


I would argue Justin Verlander did as much to help the Astros win Game 6 while losing Game 5 as any Astro who played Saturday. He surrendered four first-inning runs, but did not surrender to the moment. He shut out the Yankees the rest of the way through seven innings. Without a blowout, the Yanks had to use leverage relievers Britton, Kahnle and Chapman while the Astros needed only one inning from Brad Peacock and nothing from Jose Urquidy, Will Harris and Joe Smith, who all would be needed in a bullpen game 24 hours later.



A team with Verlander has played the Yankees five times in the postseason (three with Detroit, twice with Houston). They are 5-0. Perhaps that is coincidence. I don’t think so. The superior starting pitching of his teams (with him) has won out. He no longer is available to them. But his younger version, Cole, is. The expectation is all things being equal, the free agent would go West toward home and maybe the Angels or Dodgers make that possible.


But if this is about money, the Yanks should win here because with him, a full season of Luis Severino, James Paxton and Masahiro Tanaka plus a strong bullpen, the Yanks would not be outclassed by any opponent. Add Lindor too and the Yanks stop being the Riley Knicks against any foe — including the Jordan Astros.


2 months ago  ::  Oct 20, 2019 - 8:48PM #60
Paterson
Posts: 6,538

Oct 20, 2019 -- 4:19PM, qwik3457 wrote:


Oct 20, 2019 -- 4:13PM, Rob wrote:


I wondered if "Maybe it is time to sell ?" was suggesting players, not the Steinbrenners selling the team.




I don't think he meant the players. If I'm reading him correctly, I think Paterson thinks this team is close to a title, and should makes moves to get there, not back off.




    I did mean players. This team is about to get very expensive and I do not see anyone as untouchable. 

Page 6 of 11  •  Prev 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 11 Next
Jump Menu:
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing

Yankees Forum