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1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 11:05AM #31
chl45
Posts: 2,564

Nov 12, 2019 -- 10:17AM, SSBob643 wrote:


Nov 12, 2019 -- 9:53AM, Secretagent wrote:


First base has traditionally been the position where players with limited defensive skills are hidden.  To say that that has changed in this era is imo without any basis in actual fact outside of anecdotal imo.  Sure there have been and continue to be some pretty good 1bs.  There have also been\are some rather bad ones.  Obviously, if they are so bad that they can't catch a throw or field a grounder they are not going to stay at 1b either, but to claim that there are not the marginal fielders still at 1b is simply not looking hard enough (just look at the defensive stats for what they are worth).  There are a number with almost no range that can barely field a ground ball and make a throw to second if they need to.   And while all positions have their share of less than avg to bad fielders, 1b is still the easiest position to play on the field imo, not requiring arm strength, accuracy, range or reflexes in any great abundance.


Wrt Andujar, a player whose main defensive lapses are with his throwing imo, that problem largely disappears at 1b.  He should in theory imo be able to play 1b adequately.  Whether he ever becomes defensively good enough that you want him out there in the late innings of a close game in the playoffs is another matter of course, but that is besides the point.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Exactly. Obviously, you're not gonna throw a player who's had no experience out there, but with a little practice and work just about any MLB ballplayer should be able to play an adequate 1B. 


The same can't be said of other positions. You're not gonna put Voit at any other position and not expect disaster. 




I can't say that some of that isn't true, that limited defensive skilled players were at first base over the years. I just think that  the Yankees putting Andujar there is not going to happen. Did they put Knobloch at first base when he couldn't make a throw to save his life? I don't think they did. He stayed at 2nd base and everyone held their breath when he had a ball hit to him. Were they going to take the first baseman out of there so he could play 1st?


My main reasoning is that Guys are not going to be discharged from playing their position just so Didi can play and why would the Yankees pay him over two guys that most likely make less than he does combined, to play first base and together hit close to 40 home runs and have had some game winning hits and RBI's and were a big part of our offense?! You don't like me, I get that so you pick on everything I say.  You take writing with confidence as though it is against the law. Writing the way I do is opinionated absolutely.


That means it is an opinion do I have to say that so some of you can remember it? Again how many times should "IMO" be added to a post of mine? After every word? Sentence? Paragraph? "IMO" some of you just like to argue about everything, and not just with me!  C'est la vie!!


you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 11:19AM #32
SSBob643
Posts: 3,017

Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:05AM, chl45 wrote:


You don't like me, I get that so you pick on everything I say.  You take writing with confidence as though it is against the law. Writing the way I do is opinionated absolutely.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


WTF are you talking about? I simply corrected your confident, yet erroneous statement re Skowron, and your very poor evaluation of DJL's play at 1B.



1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 11:21AM #33
newinn
Posts: 36,244

KNobloch was moved to left field. He didn't stay at 2nd

1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 11:26AM #34
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 80,851

Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:05AM, chl45 wrote:


Nov 12, 2019 -- 10:17AM, SSBob643 wrote:


Nov 12, 2019 -- 9:53AM, Secretagent wrote:


First base has traditionally been the position where players with limited defensive skills are hidden.  To say that that has changed in this era is imo without any basis in actual fact outside of anecdotal imo.  Sure there have been and continue to be some pretty good 1bs.  There have also been\are some rather bad ones.  Obviously, if they are so bad that they can't catch a throw or field a grounder they are not going to stay at 1b either, but to claim that there are not the marginal fielders still at 1b is simply not looking hard enough (just look at the defensive stats for what they are worth).  There are a number with almost no range that can barely field a ground ball and make a throw to second if they need to.   And while all positions have their share of less than avg to bad fielders, 1b is still the easiest position to play on the field imo, not requiring arm strength, accuracy, range or reflexes in any great abundance.


Wrt Andujar, a player whose main defensive lapses are with his throwing imo, that problem largely disappears at 1b.  He should in theory imo be able to play 1b adequately.  Whether he ever becomes defensively good enough that you want him out there in the late innings of a close game in the playoffs is another matter of course, but that is besides the point.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Exactly. Obviously, you're not gonna throw a player who's had no experience out there, but with a little practice and work just about any MLB ballplayer should be able to play an adequate 1B. 


The same can't be said of other positions. You're not gonna put Voit at any other position and not expect disaster. 




I can't say that some of that isn't true, that limited defensive skilled players were at first base over the years. I just think that  the Yankees putting Andujar there is not going to happen. Did they put Knobloch at first base when he couldn't make a throw to save his life? I don't think they did. He stayed at 2nd base and everyone held their breath when he had a ball hit to him. Were they going to take the first baseman out of there so he could play 1st?


My main reasoning is that Guys are not going to be discharged from playing their position just so Didi can play and why would the Yankees pay him over two guys that most likely make less than he does combined, to play first base and together hit close to 40 home runs and have had some game winning hits and RBI's and were a big part of our offense?! You don't like me, I get that so you pick on everything I say.  You take writing with confidence as though it is against the law. Writing the way I do is opinionated absolutely.


That means it is an opinion do I have to say that so some of you can remember it? Again how many times should "IMO" be added to a post of mine? After every word? Sentence? Paragraph? "IMO" some of you just like to argue about everything, and not just with me!  C'est la vie!!





JPEP, you are the worst we've had around here since you were here last year ... the same long-winded factually based sounding commentary from you constantly ... you rarely use IMO ... and even when you do you go on to sound as if everything you are saying is in fact a fact and not an opinion ... it is a horrible style of writing and quite annoying ... if you finally got newinn annoyed that's saying a lot ... he speaks with everyone on many subjects and is the best poster on this board at this time ... cleanup can sound argumentative, but at least he puts a note in his signature trying to explain himself ... and he also makes some solidly great postings that are not all based on opinion ... he does use facts ... your postings are pure opinion and you represent them in the way you write as if you are a true baseball analyst and we should take you at your word ... which you are absolutely not.

1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 11:36AM #35
chl45
Posts: 2,564

Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:19AM, SSBob643 wrote:


Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:05AM, chl45 wrote:


You don't like me, I get that so you pick on everything I say.  You take writing with confidence as though it is against the law. Writing the way I do is opinionated absolutely.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


WTF are you talking about? I simply corrected your confident, yet erroneous, statement re Skowron, and your very poor evaluation of DJL's play at 1B.






OK I should have explained not all of that was directed at you. My detractors all were on here, (this thread I started) bashing me for a change and I lumped you in with them. Did not mean to say that to you specifically. Not all of it. Of course if they would have read at the top of the post that the thread was my opinion of what I projected would happen it would have made them understand what I posted. As for Moose I was a  little kid and my impression of the guy at that time was he was a big guy. Sometimes that happens and your childhood impressions are at times skewed as an adult with that amount of time passed. I remember him like I did when I was a kid.


As for DJ, man, my eyes are  apparently different than yours. He does not appear to be the same player at first as he is at 2nd or 3rd. Not to me he isn't. He is right handed and that right there is a different feel playing first base on certain angles on throws. Torres and Didi  did have some bad throws at times and his stretching to make the plays were awkward looking to me. His fielding on sharp grounders hit at high velo were instinctive granted. It is just the way he moves around the bag just didn't seem very smooth to me at times. I will add that if Ford keeps hitting the way he did in 2019 and Luke doesn't come out of his funk Ford may just be the first baseman. His left handed bat is a big plus for him. Again between the two of them they hit almost 40 homers.

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 11:46AM #36
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 80,851

Ford and Voit hit 33 homeruns in 2019 ... 21 for Voit and 12 for Ford ... and the baseball was flying in 2019 ... depends on whether or not they keep the same baseball in 2020 as to whether they can duplicate those stats.  Voit has a bit of a history, but Ford has nothing but 2019 ... so having so much faith in Ford is quite ridiculous ... hoping that Voit repeats is also questionable as prior to 2019 he didn't have anywhere enough at bats to be able to justify a great hitting first baseman.

1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 11:50AM #37
newinn
Posts: 36,244

Andujat hit 27 in 2018, hit 318 and had fewer K's far more doubles then both Voit and Ford. Last offseason I wanted to trade Andujar for a stud pitcher but I think his injury somewhat diminished his trade value. He is a butcher at 3rd but I see no readon why he can't be a decent 1st baseman

1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 11:56AM #38
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 80,851

Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:50AM, newinn wrote:


Andujat hit 27 in 2018, hit 318 and had fewer K's far more doubles then both Voit and Ford. Last offseason I wanted to trade Andujar for a stud pitcher but I think his injury somewhat diminished his trade value. He is a butcher at 3rd but I see no readon why he can't be a decent 1st baseman




I don't have a lot of faith in transitioning Andujar from third to first, but there is no reason why they can't try it in spring training and see how it works ... can't tell for sure unless they try it.  His bat would definitely be better than a Voit or a Ford.

1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 12:00PM #39
newinn
Posts: 36,244

Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:56AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:50AM, newinn wrote:


Andujat hit 27 in 2018, hit 318 and had fewer K's far more doubles then both Voit and Ford. Last offseason I wanted to trade Andujar for a stud pitcher but I think his injury somewhat diminished his trade value. He is a butcher at 3rd but I see no readon why he can't be a decent 1st baseman




I don't have a lot of faith in transitioning Andujar from third to first, but there is no reason why they can't try it in spring training and see how it works ... can't tell for sure unless they try it.  His bat would definitely be better than a Voit or a Ford.




I don't want him back on third. We all saw what a good fielding 3rd baseman can do to save runs with Urshela. Andujar was one of the worst fielding 3rd baseman I ever saw in pinstripes. Voit and Ford are not exactly Texiera on 1st either

1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2019 - 12:03PM #40
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 80,851

Nov 12, 2019 -- 12:00PM, newinn wrote:


Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:56AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:


Nov 12, 2019 -- 11:50AM, newinn wrote:


Andujat hit 27 in 2018, hit 318 and had fewer K's far more doubles then both Voit and Ford. Last offseason I wanted to trade Andujar for a stud pitcher but I think his injury somewhat diminished his trade value. He is a butcher at 3rd but I see no readon why he can't be a decent 1st baseman




I don't have a lot of faith in transitioning Andujar from third to first, but there is no reason why they can't try it in spring training and see how it works ... can't tell for sure unless they try it.  His bat would definitely be better than a Voit or a Ford.




I don't want him back on third. We all saw what a good fielding 3rd baseman can do to save runs with Urshela. Andujar was one of the worst fielding 3rd baseman I ever saw in pinstripes. Voit and Ford are not exactly Texiera on 1st either




I would never want Andujar back at third ... we have a good third baseman in Urshela ... I know it was only one year, but I am hoping he is the real deal ... if not we can handle that in 2021 ... and you're right, Voit and Ford are no Tex at first.

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