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Ventilators
2 months ago  ::  Mar 26, 2020 - 7:41AM #11
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 18,221

Mar 26, 2020 -- 7:34AM, Judge wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 9:11PM, dixieyank wrote:


I seem to remember when persons against socialized medicine were touting "death panels".....


Well, now we are going to likely see "death panels", in that there are only so many resources to go around. My local hospital has only 90, and almost half were already in use prior to the recent wave of corona patients. 


Imagine, unlike other places in the world, where a rich person simply pays for their ventilator no matter their age and condition....while some younger, healthier and more productive person will do without. Free market healthcare! Scre.w you plebs...




Imagine an unprecedented world health crisis - try to remember the context.  




You can't be prepared for every black swan scenario.   There are two choices a personal and financial one or a death panel one.

2 months ago  ::  Mar 26, 2020 - 12:33PM #12
Max
Posts: 4,555

Mar 25, 2020 -- 7:21PM, NW wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 3:35PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 3:04PM, NW wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 1:27PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 4:18AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cites-post-o...



Cuomo has been pretty hyberbolic, he better make sure he has his facts straight before throwing it all on the federal government.




1) Trump now says he doesn't blame anyone. Yes, I know that can change just as soon as Cuomo criticizes him.


2) The 5 year old advisory report never recommended that Cuomo buy ventilators.


3) Look at what your governor is doing or not doing like when he had the beaches open. It seems like he's taking his time implementing other restrictions. Perhaps he should listen to Cuomo when he says that NY is living in every other states future, because if he doesn't implement restrictions like Cuomo did, there's a good chance that Florida's Covid-19 stats will surpass NY's stats because of Florida's large elderly population.  




The report said that we were short of ventilators and had pretty specific numbers (probably the same numbers that Cuomo is using now).  Cuomo and Zucker decided on this path of action rather than the purchase of ventilators.  Again, hindsight is indeed 2020, but for Andrew to go on stage and blame the president, asking him "where are the ventilators?", is disingenuine.  He knows that they aren't there.  He also knows he chose not to supply for his state.




Again, he wasn't recommended to do so. And he seems to know that there are at least 20,000 ventilators out there. I will take his word until it's proven otherwise. 




You're right.  His person (Zucker) didn't recommend that he do it.  But Cuomo got the report.  You can't say the buck doesn't stop with him if you're blaming Trump for one of his minions dismantling the pandemic team.  




It was already proven that Trump knew about the dismantling of the Pandemic Response Team. Don't peddle the "both sides" stuff to me, because I'm not buying it.

2 months ago  ::  Mar 26, 2020 - 2:52PM #13
Judge
Posts: 2,591

Mar 26, 2020 -- 12:33PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 7:21PM, NW wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 3:35PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 3:04PM, NW wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 1:27PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 4:18AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cites-post-o...



Cuomo has been pretty hyberbolic, he better make sure he has his facts straight before throwing it all on the federal government.




1) Trump now says he doesn't blame anyone. Yes, I know that can change just as soon as Cuomo criticizes him.


2) The 5 year old advisory report never recommended that Cuomo buy ventilators.


3) Look at what your governor is doing or not doing like when he had the beaches open. It seems like he's taking his time implementing other restrictions. Perhaps he should listen to Cuomo when he says that NY is living in every other states future, because if he doesn't implement restrictions like Cuomo did, there's a good chance that Florida's Covid-19 stats will surpass NY's stats because of Florida's large elderly population.  




The report said that we were short of ventilators and had pretty specific numbers (probably the same numbers that Cuomo is using now).  Cuomo and Zucker decided on this path of action rather than the purchase of ventilators.  Again, hindsight is indeed 2020, but for Andrew to go on stage and blame the president, asking him "where are the ventilators?", is disingenuine.  He knows that they aren't there.  He also knows he chose not to supply for his state.




Again, he wasn't recommended to do so. And he seems to know that there are at least 20,000 ventilators out there. I will take his word until it's proven otherwise. 




You're right.  His person (Zucker) didn't recommend that he do it.  But Cuomo got the report.  You can't say the buck doesn't stop with him if you're blaming Trump for one of his minions dismantling the pandemic team.  




It was already proven that Trump knew about the dismantling of the Pandemic Response Team. Don't peddle the "both sides" stuff to me, because I'm not buying it.




It was not dismantled, it was restructured and moved under a different umbrella.   Stop lying.

2 months ago  ::  Mar 26, 2020 - 3:38PM #14
NY23
Posts: 7,323

Mar 26, 2020 -- 2:52PM, Judge wrote:


Mar 26, 2020 -- 12:33PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 7:21PM, NW wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 3:35PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 3:04PM, NW wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 1:27PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 4:18AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cites-post-o...



Cuomo has been pretty hyberbolic, he better make sure he has his facts straight before throwing it all on the federal government.




1) Trump now says he doesn't blame anyone. Yes, I know that can change just as soon as Cuomo criticizes him.


2) The 5 year old advisory report never recommended that Cuomo buy ventilators.


3) Look at what your governor is doing or not doing like when he had the beaches open. It seems like he's taking his time implementing other restrictions. Perhaps he should listen to Cuomo when he says that NY is living in every other states future, because if he doesn't implement restrictions like Cuomo did, there's a good chance that Florida's Covid-19 stats will surpass NY's stats because of Florida's large elderly population.  




The report said that we were short of ventilators and had pretty specific numbers (probably the same numbers that Cuomo is using now).  Cuomo and Zucker decided on this path of action rather than the purchase of ventilators.  Again, hindsight is indeed 2020, but for Andrew to go on stage and blame the president, asking him "where are the ventilators?", is disingenuine.  He knows that they aren't there.  He also knows he chose not to supply for his state.




Again, he wasn't recommended to do so. And he seems to know that there are at least 20,000 ventilators out there. I will take his word until it's proven otherwise. 




You're right.  His person (Zucker) didn't recommend that he do it.  But Cuomo got the report.  You can't say the buck doesn't stop with him if you're blaming Trump for one of his minions dismantling the pandemic team.  




It was already proven that Trump knew about the dismantling of the Pandemic Response Team. Don't peddle the "both sides" stuff to me, because I'm not buying it.




It was not dismantled, it was restructured and moved under a different umbrella.   Stop lying.




Stop lying. If only Lying Donnie and members of his lying cult would practice that.


Image result for mitt romney trump quote

2 months ago  ::  Mar 26, 2020 - 7:21PM #15
dixieyank
Posts: 5,977

Mar 26, 2020 -- 5:44AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 9:11PM, dixieyank wrote:


I seem to remember when persons against socialized medicine were touting "death panels".....


Well, now we are going to likely see "death panels", in that there are only so many resources to go around. My local hospital has only 90, and almost half were already in use prior to the recent wave of corona patients. 


Imagine, unlike other places in the world, where a rich person simply pays for their ventilator no matter their age and condition....while some younger, healthier and more productive person will do without. Free market healthcare! Scre.w you plebs...




So you are saying that death panels are better than you getting as much healthcare as you have coverage for or are willing to pay for?  For instance some people would want to spare no expense to stay alive where for me there is a definite point where I would want to cut that off to leave something to my loved ones or when the quality of life declines to the point where survival is for survival's sake.  There will always be scarcity and limits, there will always be priorities.   Strange that you want it in the hands of a bureaucrat. 




No. What I was leaning towards, was that FOR PROFIT in health services, is a poor idea. When bean counters want to wait until the last minute to reorder supplies, so their quarterly reports look better to the suits, patients suffer and workers are put in bad situations.


I've worked in a nonprofit, a county owned supposed nonprofit (but started building an empire for the local doctor's clinic, and thus acted as a for profit so they can buy up outlying hospitals and clinics to make even more money for the doctors), and a pure private owned FOR profit. And I can tell you, that once you get away from non-profit, patients and staff suffer greatly.

2 months ago  ::  Mar 27, 2020 - 3:25PM #16
Judge
Posts: 2,591

Mar 25, 2020 -- 9:11PM, dixieyank wrote:


I seem to remember when persons against socialized medicine were touting "death panels".....


Well, now we are going to likely see "death panels", in that there are only so many resources to go around. My local hospital has only 90, and almost half were already in use prior to the recent wave of corona patients. 


Imagine, unlike other places in the world, where a rich person simply pays for their ventilator no matter their age and condition....while some younger, healthier and more productive person will do without. Free market healthcare! Scre.w you plebs...




twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/124338...


twitter.com/MattWolking/status/124386309...

2 months ago  ::  Mar 28, 2020 - 5:18AM #17
NW
Posts: 2,035

Mar 26, 2020 -- 12:33PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 7:21PM, NW wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 3:35PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 3:04PM, NW wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 1:27PM, Max wrote:


Mar 25, 2020 -- 4:18AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:


nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cites-post-o...



Cuomo has been pretty hyberbolic, he better make sure he has his facts straight before throwing it all on the federal government.




1) Trump now says he doesn't blame anyone. Yes, I know that can change just as soon as Cuomo criticizes him.


2) The 5 year old advisory report never recommended that Cuomo buy ventilators.


3) Look at what your governor is doing or not doing like when he had the beaches open. It seems like he's taking his time implementing other restrictions. Perhaps he should listen to Cuomo when he says that NY is living in every other states future, because if he doesn't implement restrictions like Cuomo did, there's a good chance that Florida's Covid-19 stats will surpass NY's stats because of Florida's large elderly population.  




The report said that we were short of ventilators and had pretty specific numbers (probably the same numbers that Cuomo is using now).  Cuomo and Zucker decided on this path of action rather than the purchase of ventilators.  Again, hindsight is indeed 2020, but for Andrew to go on stage and blame the president, asking him "where are the ventilators?", is disingenuine.  He knows that they aren't there.  He also knows he chose not to supply for his state.




Again, he wasn't recommended to do so. And he seems to know that there are at least 20,000 ventilators out there. I will take his word until it's proven otherwise. 




You're right.  His person (Zucker) didn't recommend that he do it.  But Cuomo got the report.  You can't say the buck doesn't stop with him if you're blaming Trump for one of his minions dismantling the pandemic team.  




It was already proven that Trump knew about the dismantling of the Pandemic Response Team.



No such thing has been proven.


Don't peddle the "both sides" stuff to me, because I'm not buying it.


You don't have to buy the truth.  I have no control over that.





2 months ago  ::  Mar 28, 2020 - 10:01AM #18
bertram
Posts: 12,161

"Dan", are you still dispensing medical advice without a license?  Have you apologized yet for following The Orange Menace's lead in initially downplaying the dangers from the virus and publishing false and misleading info here?

2 months ago  ::  Mar 28, 2020 - 11:41AM #19
prof. quiz
Posts: 8,624

I read that Trumpet is calling out GM for their inability to meet his production demands for manufacturing ventilators.


"What is so hard about producing a window fan?" he angrily asked their CEO.

2 months ago  ::  Mar 28, 2020 - 11:43AM #20
bertram
Posts: 12,161

Mar 28, 2020 -- 11:41AM, prof. quiz wrote:


I read that Trumpet is calling out GM for their inability to meet his production demands for manufacturing ventilators.


"What is so hard about producing a window fan?" he angrily asked their CEO.




OMG!  What a "compleat" fool he is!

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