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A-Rod, Pettitte and the HOF
9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:13AM #11
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 84,807

Jan 10, 2013 -- 8:18AM, NYYGuy wrote:

Right or wrong, the voters made a statement yesterday. Makes you wonder if A-Rod perhaps isn't the HOF lock that we all assumed. Andy Pettitte was never a HOF lock but hopefully his admitted hgh use doesn't hurt his chances....




You either let none of the cheats in, or you let them all in ... and how are you going to keep them all out, when there are over 100 names that were proven to cheat, but that MLB will not allow the names out??

9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:21AM #12
T15D23A46
Posts: 5,953

Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.

-------------------------
T15D23

- 11/25/03 GBMA

- 6/11/04 GBCJ

- 6/9/07 God Bless Leo

- 10/16/07 God Bless Huck

- 11/12/11 God Bless Mom

- 09/24/14 God Bless Dad

-------------------------
9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:23AM #13
doubleplay643
Posts: 6,115

Neither was Piazza or Biggio ... 

9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:31AM #14
LiferYank
Posts: 6,728

Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:21AM, T15D23A46 wrote:


Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.





How the hell is cheating to come back faster from an injury not cheating? And you have zero evidence that Bonds nor Alex were using for most of their careers. Bonds and the end is obvious and Arod admitted to 3 years but that is hardly most of their careers.



Greenies were used from around the 50's on and are now banned. I guess we need to just take everyone from the 50's on and boot them out of the hall for cheating ( sarcasm)

9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:46AM #15
T15D23A46
Posts: 5,953

Lets start with the fact that what Andy used to recover from an injury was not banned by baseball at the time of his usage. Nor did he use it to improve his game in season. Otherwise I would agree with you.


Uppers do not increase body mass, do not allow for quick muscle recovery, etc. so no, greenies, which is nothing more than caffiene pills, ain't nothing.


Alex has been using from the beginning of his career, if not from HS. His 3 year admission was nothing more than a political move as he was baseball's last great hope to recover from the cheating Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc. 


And Alex would not be breaking down the way he is if he used for just 3 years. 


As for Andy, you can enlighten yourself with this article:


bleacherreport.com/articles/1108809-andy...


Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:31AM, LiferYank wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:21AM, T15D23A46 wrote:


Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.





How the hell is cheating to come back faster from an injury not cheating? And you have zero evidence that Bonds nor Alex were using for most of their careers. Bonds and the end is obvious and Arod admitted to 3 years but that is hardly most of their careers.



Greenies were used from around the 50's on and are now banned. I guess we need to just take everyone from the 50's on and boot them out of the hall for cheating ( sarcasm)





-------------------------
T15D23

- 11/25/03 GBMA

- 6/11/04 GBCJ

- 6/9/07 God Bless Leo

- 10/16/07 God Bless Huck

- 11/12/11 God Bless Mom

- 09/24/14 God Bless Dad

-------------------------
9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:47AM #16
laurenfrances
Posts: 46,510

Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:31AM, LiferYank wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:21AM, T15D23A46 wrote:


Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.





How the hell is cheating to come back faster from an injury not cheating? And you have zero evidence that Bonds nor Alex were using for most of their careers. Bonds and the end is obvious and Arod admitted to 3 years but that is hardly most of their careers.



Greenies were used from around the 50's on and are now banned. I guess we need to just take everyone from the 50's on and boot them out of the hall for cheating ( sarcasm)




I will continue to say in regards to passed steroid users....since the word 'cheater' was thrown out there, they weren't actually cheaters since it wasn't illegal yet 


I like those voting writers to have the same passion when it comes to greenie users and most certainly corked bats...time to do an investigative search to boot them out.....Laughing  Perhaps label inductees in appropriate eras as Steroid era, Greenies era and Corked bats era...etc....why just focus on PEDs as each eras have its vices???? Come on writers, get the label guns out!!!!!! Wink

9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:49AM #17
NYYGuy
Posts: 5,216

Even though what Andy was trying to accomplish by HGH use was different or more "noble" than other drug cheats...the fact is he still cheated.


 


But like I said, Andy's career won't be remembered for that. It's just a small blip. Can't say the same about Bonds, Clemens, and those other guys.


 


 

9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:56AM #18
NYYGuy
Posts: 5,216

"Lets start with the fact that what Andy used to recover from an injury was not banned by baseball at the time of his usage."


 


No HGH itself wasn't banned, but using a prescription drug (which HGH was) without a valid prescription has been banned in MLB since the early 70's.


 


Unfortunately that's exactly what Andy did. The HGH was his father's prescription, not his. That's cheating.

9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 11:58AM #19
yank0428
Posts: 18,446

Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:08AM, bomberhojoe wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 10:59AM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 9:16AM, saltydog wrote:


a bit off topic, I suppose, but I'd really like your insights on a pet peeve of mine re: the HOF . . .


as an Dodger fan during my younger years (I was born in Brooklyn), the failure of the Hall of Fame to induct Gil Hodges has, at various time, perplexed, befuddled, confused, and infuriated me . . . I know his eligibility for selection by the writers has long passed, but why the veterans' committee consistently refuses to right this wrong just baffles my brain and burns my butt . . . any insights/thoughts/opinions/beliefs regarding what I consider a travesty of the highest order would be greatly appreciated . . . thanx . . .




Gil? How bout Donnie? Misery loves company!




Both Gil, Donnie and Dale Murphy are MUCH MORE deserving than Ortiz.  Does anyone really believe Ortiz wasn't taking PEDs with Manny?




I agree Bomber about those mentioned being more deserving. I don't get Jack Morris not getting the vote either.


 It's really a joke that Arod get all this scorn and Ortiz smiles and denies himself away from it. Ortiz and Arod were the only ones exposed from that list. A Fed Sox fan must have given Arod up and a Yankee Fed fan returned the favor.He's as guilty as Bonds another one who will never admit knowingly using.For that alone along with Clemens they should never get in. At least Clemens and Bonds were great players before using while Ortiz didn't become a star until he was 28 years old after being released by the Twins.

9 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 12:31PM #20
yankeeokie
Posts: 563

If a player won't own up to using because he wants into the HOF then he is still cheating his sport!

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