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A-Rod, Pettitte and the HOF
10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 12:52PM #21
bomberhojoe
Posts: 15,356

Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:58AM, yank0428 wrote:


I agree Bomber about those mentioned being more deserving. I don't get Jack Morris not getting the vote either.


 It's really a joke that Arod get all this scorn and Ortiz smiles and denies himself away from it. Ortiz and Arod were the only ones exposed from that list. A Fed Sox fan must have given Arod up and a Yankee Fed fan returned the favor.He's as guilty as Bonds another one who will never admit knowingly using.For that alone along with Clemens they should never get in. At least Clemens and Bonds were great players before using while Ortiz didn't become a star until he was 28 years old after being released by the Twins.




Agree completely about Morris.  He was a great pitcher.

John 3:16 * Ephesians 2:8-9 * Romans 10:9-10 * John 14:3-6 * Romans 5:8
10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 1:00PM #22
newinn
Posts: 38,573

If roid users should be kept out of the Hall, so should Pettitte.


 Still don't see how a written agreement between the players on that list should be broken for everyone because somehow names leaked. If you and I sign an agreement with a third party and somehow my name gets leaked, should that void your agreement? of course not, unless perhaps you were the leaker.

10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 1:06PM #23
JoeGNJ
Posts: 15,926

Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:08AM, bomberhojoe wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 10:59AM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 9:16AM, saltydog wrote:


a bit off topic, I suppose, but I'd really like your insights on a pet peeve of mine re: the HOF . . .


as an Dodger fan during my younger years (I was born in Brooklyn), the failure of the Hall of Fame to induct Gil Hodges has, at various time, perplexed, befuddled, confused, and infuriated me . . . I know his eligibility for selection by the writers has long passed, but why the veterans' committee consistently refuses to right this wrong just baffles my brain and burns my butt . . . any insights/thoughts/opinions/beliefs regarding what I consider a travesty of the highest order would be greatly appreciated . . . thanx . . .




Gil? How bout Donnie? Misery loves company!




Both Gil, Donnie and Dale Murphy are MUCH MORE deserving than Ortiz.  Does anyone really believe Ortiz wasn't taking PEDs with Manny?




I understand totally BHJ. I still like to hold to innocent until proven guilty. Yet, admittedly, i can be swayed when its a Yankee. I totalaly admit to being a homer to some degree there.

JoeGNJ - 2Timothy 4:7 - Acts 20:24
10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 1:08PM #24
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 84,841

Jan 10, 2013 -- 1:00PM, newinn wrote:


If roid users should be kept out of the Hall, so should Pettitte.


 Still don't see how a written agreement between the players on that list should be broken for everyone because somehow names leaked. If you and I sign an agreement with a third party and somehow my name gets leaked, should that void your agreement? of course not, unless perhaps you were the leaker.





Not saying the list needs to be voided and the names released ... years back I had wished it were ... but I have since come to realize that there have to be players that didn't get caught that are not even on that list ... there have to be players that are playing right now that no one suspects, that have done PEDS ... and ultimately may get into the HOF ...


 


... hence, my point is that ALL players that deserve to be in the HOF should get in ... if they were proven to have done steroids, put an asterisk by their name ... but they should be allowed in ... because ultimately there are going to be players in the HOF that did PEDS but were never caught or are on that list and were never named.


 


It's simply unfair to keep out steroid users that were named, but allow other players to get in that no one has a clue if they were indeed found to have cheated, but were just lucky enough to never have their name leaked.

10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 1:11PM #25
JoeGNJ
Posts: 15,926

Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:21AM, T15D23A46 wrote:


Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.




Agreed, Andy was no where NEAR the others in regards to use of hormones. In fact,if I;m correct, it wasnt illegal what he did when he did it. Not defending Alex but, her took them from 2001-2003, which is not most of his career or as long as Bonds alleged use was. As far as Andy and the HOF stats wise, there is no pitcher 100 games over .500 not in the HOF.

JoeGNJ - 2Timothy 4:7 - Acts 20:24
10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 1:31PM #26
yank0428
Posts: 18,446

Jan 10, 2013 -- 1:11PM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:21AM, T15D23A46 wrote:


Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.




Agreed, Andy was no where NEAR the others in regards to use of hormones. In fact,if I;m correct, it wasnt illegal what he did when he did it. Not defending Alex but, her took them from 2001-2003, which is not most of his career or as long as Bonds alleged use was. As far as Andy and the HOF stats wise, there is no pitcher 100 games over .500 not in the HOF.




Joe I give Arod credit for admitting his use of PED's unlike Ortiz when outed but find it hard to believe that he only used those years and was totaly truthful when he admitted it. .He sure played like he was using his opt out year with the Yanks. Look back on his 2007 season. He was on fire the whole year.

10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 2:02PM #27
JoeGNJ
Posts: 15,926

Jan 10, 2013 -- 1:31PM, yank0428 wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 1:11PM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:21AM, T15D23A46 wrote:


Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.




Agreed, Andy was no where NEAR the others in regards to use of hormones. In fact,if I;m correct, it wasnt illegal what he did when he did it. Not defending Alex but, her took them from 2001-2003, which is not most of his career or as long as Bonds alleged use was. As far as Andy and the HOF stats wise, there is no pitcher 100 games over .500 not in the HOF.




Joe I give Arod credit for admitting his use of PED's unlike Ortiz when outed but find it hard to believe that he only used those years and was totaly truthful when he admitted it. .He sure played like he was using his opt out year with the Yanks. Look back on his 2007 season. He was on fire the whole year.




Understood but, why admit to ANYTHING at all if youre not going to tell all? His "mistake" (as far as using) was opening his yap. Then again, thats A-Rod being A-Rod. Perhaps, the "solution" as far as the HOF is that these players have it listed on their plaques, that they used PEDs.

JoeGNJ - 2Timothy 4:7 - Acts 20:24
10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 2:07PM #28
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 84,841

Jan 10, 2013 -- 2:02PM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 1:31PM, yank0428 wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 1:11PM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:21AM, T15D23A46 wrote:


Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.




Agreed, Andy was no where NEAR the others in regards to use of hormones. In fact,if I;m correct, it wasnt illegal what he did when he did it. Not defending Alex but, her took them from 2001-2003, which is not most of his career or as long as Bonds alleged use was. As far as Andy and the HOF stats wise, there is no pitcher 100 games over .500 not in the HOF.




Joe I give Arod credit for admitting his use of PED's unlike Ortiz when outed but find it hard to believe that he only used those years and was totaly truthful when he admitted it. .He sure played like he was using his opt out year with the Yanks. Look back on his 2007 season. He was on fire the whole year.




Understood but, why admit to ANYTHING at all if youre not going to tell all? His "mistake" (as far as using) was opening his yap. Then again, thats A-Rod being A-Rod. Perhaps, the "solution" as far as the HOF is that these players have it listed on their plaques, that they used PEDs.




Bingo!

10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 2:13PM #29
yank0428
Posts: 18,446

Jan 10, 2013 -- 2:02PM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 1:31PM, yank0428 wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 1:11PM, JoeGNJ wrote:


Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:21AM, T15D23A46 wrote:


Players like Bonds, Alex, etc. were serial steroid users, using for most of thier careers, with the primary goal to play way above what was humanly possible. They cheated the game.


Pettitte, his use was of a hormone to speed healing to get off the disabled list asap, not to get an edge in game. Andy can't be lumped in with these cheaters, regardless of whether the discussion is about the hall or not.


As for Andy and the HOF, hard to say, he is the winnigiest pitcher in the post season, he won 12 or more games in his 1st 9 seasons, won 20 games twice, 3x all star, but no Cy Young.  Then there is his career stats of 245-142, 3.86 ERA where he has more than 100 game difference between wins and losses.


Truly hard to predict how the voters will treat Andy, but as I stated above, Andy isn't Clemens, Alex or Bonds.




Agreed, Andy was no where NEAR the others in regards to use of hormones. In fact,if I;m correct, it wasnt illegal what he did when he did it. Not defending Alex but, her took them from 2001-2003, which is not most of his career or as long as Bonds alleged use was. As far as Andy and the HOF stats wise, there is no pitcher 100 games over .500 not in the HOF.




Joe I give Arod credit for admitting his use of PED's unlike Ortiz when outed but find it hard to believe that he only used those years and was totaly truthful when he admitted it. .He sure played like he was using his opt out year with the Yanks. Look back on his 2007 season. He was on fire the whole year.




Understood but, why admit to ANYTHING at all if youre not going to tell all? His "mistake" (as far as using) was opening his yap. Then again, thats A-Rod being A-Rod. Perhaps, the "solution" as far as the HOF is that these players have it listed on their plaques, that they used PEDs.



That or their own section. At the entrance wil be a couple of muslce bound Greek God types holding a bat .

10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2013 - 2:42PM #30
T15D23A46
Posts: 5,953

And who here has not taken their parents antibiotics? Please.


Andy was not some chemically enhanced factory ala Alex, Bonds, Sosa, etc. finding ways to both cheat the law as well as the game itself.


To me, guys like Bonds, Alex, etc. sought out ways to get a huge edge in the game. Their stats were enhanced so mightly they were inhuman. In no way can we say the same about Andy. Using modern medicine to come back from an injury is simply not the same as using to gain an edge both on the field and in the bank.


Andy used HGH as a band aid. Alex, Bonds, etc. used it to cheat the game, its history, and the signers of their checks.


Jan 10, 2013 -- 11:56AM, NYYGuy wrote:


"Lets start with the fact that what Andy used to recover from an injury was not banned by baseball at the time of his usage."


 


No HGH itself wasn't banned, but using a prescription drug (which HGH was) without a valid prescription has been banned in MLB since the early 70's.


 


Unfortunately that's exactly what Andy did. The HGH was his father's prescription, not his. That's cheating.





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