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Question for you regarding Arod.
8 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2015 - 5:41PM #31
RobS44
Posts: 5,608

Jan 27, 2015 -- 5:29PM, BigGuy wrote:


Yankees vs. Alex Rodriguez: How lawyers say team could avoid paying him




Yankees' Alex Rodriguez and other first base backup options

Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson, File)








The Yankees still owe Alex Rodriguez tons of money. But, lawyers say, they might be able to get out of paying at least some of it.


A-Rod is set to make $61 million over the next three years. The Yankees don't have much choice other than to pay that, unless doctors declare the 39-year-old slugger physically unable to play baseball. In that case, insurance would likely pick up most of that cost.


But the Yankees are reportedly looking for ways out of a marketing deal they signed with Rodriguez in 2007, separate from the 10-year, $275-million pact both sides accepted that same season.


In the marketing arrangement, Rodriguez, who is fifth all-time with 654 career home runs, is set to earn $6 million each time he hits a particular milestone homer.


For example, he's set to earn that much if he ties Willie Mays' mark of 660 career home runs. Rodriguez would also earn $6 million if he reached each of the following plateaus: homer Nos. 714 (Hank Arron), 755 (Babe Ruth) and 762 (Barry Bonds). He'd also receive one final $6 million payment if he passes Bonds' all-time best mark.


On Tuesday, New Jersey Advanced Media spoke with several lawyers who haven't seen the marketing contract between Rodriguez and the Yankees, but still offered their opinions on how the Yankees might be able to wiggle their way out of it. A spokesman for Rodriguez declined comment on the situation. A call to the MLB Players Association wasn't immediately returned.


Here are potential legal arguments, lawyers say, the Yankees could use to contest the contract:


1. Did A-Rod breach a morality clause?


Many contracts have moral turpitude clauses, according to Charles Sullivan, a Seton Hall University law professor. Basically, these clauses hold the parties to a standard of conduct. The Yankees could make the cause, Sullivan said, that Rodriguez's performance-enhancing drug use violated that clause, since it violated the league's Joint Drug Agreement. "It should be fairly easy to get out of the contract if here's a morals clause," Sullivan said. "That's why we have them in there. To stop things like this."


if that would fly for the HR bonus why wouoldn't they try to use it to void the entire contract?  I'd be surprised if they haven't looked into it hard and been told to forget it. 


2. Did Rodriguez commit fraud?


Rodriguez signed these deals with the Yankees in 2007. That was before Rodriguez publicly admitted in 2009 to using steroids. It was also before he reportedly told federal investigators in January 2014 that he used them again, just before he served his yearlong ban from baseball. According to Edison-based lawyer Kenneth Vercammen, it's possible the Yankees could argue that Rodriguez committed fraud by not telling them about his PED use. "You can defend fighting the contract based on a fraud argument sometimes," Vercammen said. "If someone enters into a contract and doesn't disclose something, they could say there was a fraud."


Again, I'd be VERY surprised if they haven't looked into it hard as a way of voiding the entire contract and been told to forget it. 


3. Are the milestones even marketable anymore?


Attorney Anthony R. Caruso, of Lyndhurst-based Scarinci-Hollenbeck, said the Yankees could argue that Rodriguez's reputation as a steroid cheat and a liar has killed the chances the Yankees -- or anybody not named Alex Emmanuel Rodriguez -- make any money off the contract. Vercammen agreed, saying the most people probably think the fact Rodriguez could pass several all-time greats on the career home run list is "worthless." "People don't like cheaters and people don't buy paraphernalia for people they think are cheaters," Vercammen said. "People root against cheaters. That's where the Yankees could come from. They could say, 'We can't sell this product.' If you're not at Yankee Stadium, are you going to cheer for him? Pepsi isn't going to sponsor that. It would be interesting to see what endorsements he even still has."


4. Is the deal too one-sided now?


Sure, Rodriguez would make $6 million for reaching certain marks. But what would the Yankees get out of it? Clayton P. Gillette, a New York University law school professor, said the Yankees could argue that it was Rodriguez's own actions that ruined their side of the contract's value. That's a big no-no, Gillette said. "One party to the contract can't simply frustrate the other party's purpose for entering into the contract," Gillette said. That might give the Yankees ground to not enforce the contract.


I readily concede an attorney and a law professor are more knowledgeable here, but barring some activity specifically forbidden in a contract (think Aaron Boone and playing basketball)  when was the last time a MLB contract was voided because the player did not give the value the team thought it was paying for. 


Brendan Kuty may be reached at bkuty@njadvancemedia.com" title="mailto:bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\">bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\"" title="mailto:bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\">bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\"">bkuty@njadvancemedia.com">bkuty@njadvanc...>bkuty@njadvanc.... Follow him on Twitter @BrendanKutyNJ. Find NJ.com Yankees on Facebook.







8 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2015 - 5:49PM #32
RobS44
Posts: 5,608

Jan 27, 2015 -- 5:32PM, BigGuy wrote:


Jan 27, 2015 -- 2:42PM, BW26 wrote:


Jan 26, 2015 -- 10:32PM, Walton wrote:


1. Could the Yankees say, "here is your base salary of 21 million. We'll keep you on the 40 man roster but we want you to stay home. No baseball with us."..........Yes or No. Could they do this legally?


If they couldn't. Could they;


2. Pay him the money. Put him in a uniform. Have him be one of the 25 players and NOT play him? Have him sit in the corner of the dugout every night?..........No opinions please. Could they legally do this? Yes or No.


Thanks!




he wouldn't stand for it , neither would his lawyers or the player's association.




The Yankees would DFA him before just sitting him down for spite and putting up with all the garbage that would go along with it. If they aren't going to play him it makes no sense to keep him on the roster. Just pay him to sit on the beach and let the lawyers dispute his bonus monies.




Roster spots are far too valuable for that sort of fantasy league mentality.  They are far more likely to run him out there every day and hope he breaks down. 

8 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2015 - 9:43PM #33
_YaNkEeFaN4LiFe_
Posts: 1,036

Yankees can do it but wouldnt because I cant see any team justify giving away $60 million plus dollars to someone just to sit at home. Nice punishment.....

8 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2015 - 6:36AM #34
GottaGoToMo
Posts: 84,970

Jan 27, 2015 -- 5:32PM, BigGuy wrote:


Jan 27, 2015 -- 2:42PM, BW26 wrote:


Jan 26, 2015 -- 10:32PM, Walton wrote:


1. Could the Yankees say, "here is your base salary of 21 million. We'll keep you on the 40 man roster but we want you to stay home. No baseball with us."..........Yes or No. Could they do this legally?


If they couldn't. Could they;


2. Pay him the money. Put him in a uniform. Have him be one of the 25 players and NOT play him? Have him sit in the corner of the dugout every night?..........No opinions please. Could they legally do this? Yes or No.


Thanks!




he wouldn't stand for it , neither would his lawyers or the player's association.




The Yankees would DFA him before just sitting him down for spite and putting up with all the garbage that would go along with it. If they aren't going to play him it makes no sense to keep him on the roster. Just pay him to sit on the beach and let the lawyers dispute his bonus monies.




Oh, how I pray the Yankees would pay him to just stay home ... I so don't want this circus this year.

8 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2015 - 7:27AM #35
101wins
Posts: 843

I am old and some days don't remember too well but back in the day it seems that old George ordered Ken Bret (George's brother) to the bull pen and left him there for a long time without giving him a chance. Maybe someone else remembers this better than me but I thought Ken Bret's contract was about a million back then and media was all over it.

8 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2015 - 9:40AM #36
louisiana_lightning
Posts: 22,411

Okay let's stop and think about each of these scenerios.


A lawsuit to get out of paying -  You attorney out there correct me if I am wrong but any talk of this and even filing the papers is just theatre, a grand bluff.  If teams could sue to get out from under steroid contracts or diminshed returns it would have been done a long time ago.  It would also set a precedent so the union would highly contest it with everything they have and it would spook potential Yankees from signing with a team that would attempt to litigate it's way out of a deal they don't like.


Leave him on the bench so he can't reach his goals -  I think they could actually do this if they want to.  It would be easy to argue they have better options than a 39 year old and not many would run to Alex's defense.  That being said we are paying Stephen Drew $5 to $7 million after last season, are we willing to play a man short on the active roster to save $6 million for producing?  Don't see it happening.  Once again potential free agents would also see that the Yankees are willing to go to extreme measures to come up with draconian punishments for guys they no longer want.


Designate for Assignment - This would ensure Alex the balance of his contract and allow him to sign as an unrestricted free agent with any other team for a sum in addition to the Yankee obligation.  The Yankees would also still be on the hook for the bonuses.


Get what you can out of him at DH -  Alex could be the full time DH or platoon with Jones if he struggles against righties, he actually has the potential to be one of the best offensive weapons on this weak squad.


Buy out - This isn't the NHL or NBA.  A buyout for less than the guaranteed amount would be unprecedented in th MLB and the union will fight and claw to keep it that way.  Still what did the Knicks recoup from Marbury? $2million and he signs somewhere else while they pay $18million.  That's best case scenerio kind of stuff.


Try to break him - One option would be to throw him in right field.  Alex got his initial contract in part because not only was he an amazing hitter but he was a great shortstop that was an amazing hitter, he got the extension in part because he was still an elite defensive 3rd baseman.  Rodriguez has always been fine defensively except around the wall and/or with pop ups.  We know that Beltran is a liability in right field so we could throw Alex out there making his return very uncomfortable.  He would be risking injury on his surgically repared hips and embarrassing himself further looking like Bobby Abreu out there (a terrific player that fans turned on because of his fear of the wall).  This would improve the chances that Rodriguez would get himself declared medically unfit to play making his contract the problem of the insurance company.

8 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2015 - 12:09PM #37
yankeeokie
Posts: 563

Jan 28, 2015 -- 6:36AM, GottaGoToMo wrote:




Oh, how I pray the Yankees would pay him to just stay home ... I so don't want this circus this year.





If they pay him to stay home, I think they have to pay for the bonus hitting he was promised but wouldn't be able to fulfill.

8 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2015 - 1:36PM #38
Stewie
Posts: 2,450

I regularly suppress the reality of the Rodriguez contract, but it always returns to terrify me.  THREE MORE YEARS!


THE HORROR...THE HORROR!! 

8 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2015 - 1:47PM #39
BigGuy
Posts: 66,015

Jan 27, 2015 -- 5:41PM, RobS44 wrote:


Jan 27, 2015 -- 5:29PM, BigGuy wrote:


Yankees vs. Alex Rodriguez: How lawyers say team could avoid paying him




Yankees' Alex Rodriguez and other first base backup options

Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson, File)








The Yankees still owe Alex Rodriguez tons of money. But, lawyers say, they might be able to get out of paying at least some of it.


A-Rod is set to make $61 million over the next three years. The Yankees don't have much choice other than to pay that, unless doctors declare the 39-year-old slugger physically unable to play baseball. In that case, insurance would likely pick up most of that cost.


But the Yankees are reportedly looking for ways out of a marketing deal they signed with Rodriguez in 2007, separate from the 10-year, $275-million pact both sides accepted that same season.


In the marketing arrangement, Rodriguez, who is fifth all-time with 654 career home runs, is set to earn $6 million each time he hits a particular milestone homer.


For example, he's set to earn that much if he ties Willie Mays' mark of 660 career home runs. Rodriguez would also earn $6 million if he reached each of the following plateaus: homer Nos. 714 (Hank Arron), 755 (Babe Ruth) and 762 (Barry Bonds). He'd also receive one final $6 million payment if he passes Bonds' all-time best mark.


On Tuesday, New Jersey Advanced Media spoke with several lawyers who haven't seen the marketing contract between Rodriguez and the Yankees, but still offered their opinions on how the Yankees might be able to wiggle their way out of it. A spokesman for Rodriguez declined comment on the situation. A call to the MLB Players Association wasn't immediately returned.


Here are potential legal arguments, lawyers say, the Yankees could use to contest the contract:


1. Did A-Rod breach a morality clause?


Many contracts have moral turpitude clauses, according to Charles Sullivan, a Seton Hall University law professor. Basically, these clauses hold the parties to a standard of conduct. The Yankees could make the cause, Sullivan said, that Rodriguez's performance-enhancing drug use violated that clause, since it violated the league's Joint Drug Agreement. "It should be fairly easy to get out of the contract if here's a morals clause," Sullivan said. "That's why we have them in there. To stop things like this."


if that would fly for the HR bonus why wouoldn't they try to use it to void the entire contract?  I'd be surprised if they haven't looked into it hard and been told to forget it. 


2. Did Rodriguez commit fraud?


Rodriguez signed these deals with the Yankees in 2007. That was before Rodriguez publicly admitted in 2009 to using steroids. It was also before he reportedly told federal investigators in January 2014 that he used them again, just before he served his yearlong ban from baseball. According to Edison-based lawyer Kenneth Vercammen, it's possible the Yankees could argue that Rodriguez committed fraud by not telling them about his PED use. "You can defend fighting the contract based on a fraud argument sometimes," Vercammen said. "If someone enters into a contract and doesn't disclose something, they could say there was a fraud."


Again, I'd be VERY surprised if they haven't looked into it hard as a way of voiding the entire contract and been told to forget it. 


3. Are the milestones even marketable anymore?


Attorney Anthony R. Caruso, of Lyndhurst-based Scarinci-Hollenbeck, said the Yankees could argue that Rodriguez's reputation as a steroid cheat and a liar has killed the chances the Yankees -- or anybody not named Alex Emmanuel Rodriguez -- make any money off the contract. Vercammen agreed, saying the most people probably think the fact Rodriguez could pass several all-time greats on the career home run list is "worthless." "People don't like cheaters and people don't buy paraphernalia for people they think are cheaters," Vercammen said. "People root against cheaters. That's where the Yankees could come from. They could say, 'We can't sell this product.' If you're not at Yankee Stadium, are you going to cheer for him? Pepsi isn't going to sponsor that. It would be interesting to see what endorsements he even still has."


4. Is the deal too one-sided now?


Sure, Rodriguez would make $6 million for reaching certain marks. But what would the Yankees get out of it? Clayton P. Gillette, a New York University law school professor, said the Yankees could argue that it was Rodriguez's own actions that ruined their side of the contract's value. That's a big no-no, Gillette said. "One party to the contract can't simply frustrate the other party's purpose for entering into the contract," Gillette said. That might give the Yankees ground to not enforce the contract.


I readily concede an attorney and a law professor are more knowledgeable here, but barring some activity specifically forbidden in a contract (think Aaron Boone and playing basketball)  when was the last time a MLB contract was voided because the player did not give the value the team thought it was paying for. 


Brendan Kuty may be reached at bkuty@njadvancemedia.com" title="mailto:bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\">bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\"" title="mailto:bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\">bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\"" title="mailto:bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\\"\">bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\"">bkuty@njadvancemedia.com\"">bkuty@njadva...>bkuty@njadvanc...>bkuty@njadvanc.... Follow him on Twitter @BrendanKutyNJ. Find NJ.com Yankees on Facebook.










According to Bill Madden this morning on MLB, this bonus deal is a totally separate deal from his player contract. Its a marketing deal. I don't know how much the union is going to be able to help him out with this, or if they even want too, despite their comments. Madden said if it goes to court he'll have to testify and that could open up a lot of other stuff he may not want opened. 

"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
8 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2015 - 2:10PM #40
CLyankees13
Posts: 59

Jan 26, 2015 -- 10:32PM, Walton wrote:


1. Could the Yankees say, "here is your base salary of 21 million. We'll keep you on the 40 man roster but we want you to stay home. No baseball with us."..........Yes or No. Could they do this legally?


If they couldn't. Could they;


2. Pay him the money. Put him in a uniform. Have him be one of the 25 players and NOT play him? Have him sit in the corner of the dugout every night?..........No opinions please. Could they legally do this? Yes or No.


Thanks!





BEST IDEA I EVER HEARD. wow.  pay a guy 21M who can help us win, to not play for us? jeez and i thought i've heard some stupid things before....

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