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This starting rotation is still horrible
6 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2016 - 10:47AM #11
JonahFalcon
Posts: 25,531

You can directly blame this on Brian Cashman, who can't draft to save his life.


nypost.com/2016/12/17/examining-why-yank...


The Yankees’ inability to successfully turn over their rotation with youth reflects a sustained period of poor draft/development. There were 170 pitchers who started at least 12 games in 2016. Of those 170, the Reds, with two, signed the fewest of any MLB team to their first pro contracts out of the draft or international market. The Yankees had three (Kennedy, Tanaka and Ivan Nova), tied with the A’s and Tigers for the next fewest. Of those, only Kennedy was drafted.

6 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2016 - 11:33AM #12
LiferYank
Posts: 6,728

Its like you guys like falling for obvious trolls.

6 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2016 - 11:51AM #13
JonahFalcon
Posts: 25,531

Dec 18, 2016 -- 11:33AM, LiferYank wrote:


Its like you guys like falling for obvious trolls.




Yes. A troll named Brian Cashman.


Remember when Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy were going to form the core of a dynamic rotation, followed not long after by the Killer Bs — Manuel Banuelos, Dellin Betances and Andrew Brackman?



You don't like being bringing up the Yanks have a BAD ROTATION?



6 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2016 - 12:07PM #14
LiferYank
Posts: 6,728

Dec 18, 2016 -- 11:51AM, JonahFalcon wrote:


Dec 18, 2016 -- 11:33AM, LiferYank wrote:


Its like you guys like falling for obvious trolls.




Yes. A troll named Brian Cashman.


Remember when Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy were going to form the core of a dynamic rotation, followed not long after by the Killer Bs — Manuel Banuelos, Dellin Betances and Andrew Brackman?



You don't like being bringing up the Yanks have a BAD ROTATION?






I was speaking of the OP but i guess your guilty conscience was exposed eh?

6 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2016 - 4:27PM #15
1955nyyfan
Posts: 4,116

Dec 17, 2016 -- 3:42PM, bruner4329 wrote:


Dec 16, 2016 -- 1:51PM, qwik3457 wrote:


Dec 8, 2016 -- 12:17PM, cessame wrote:

How do you expect to win any games with a starting rotation like this?



Because even the worst teams win 60 games?


Dec 8, 2016 -- 12:17PM, cessame wrote:

Why is Michael Pineda still on this team?



Because he's still under team control for another year?


Dec 8, 2016 -- 12:17PM, cessame wrote:

Sabathia s knee problems... Tanakas elbow....



And both pitched solidly or better despite those injuries last year.


Dec 8, 2016 -- 12:17PM, cessame wrote:

and those are the only pieces set...



Very few, if any, teams, are "set" in all 5 rotation spots before the start of spring training.


Dec 8, 2016 -- 12:17PM, cessame wrote:

Pitching wins stupid.... it's the old cliche.



You might want to tell the Mets that. They had, by far, the better rotation than the Royals in the 2015 World Series, but the Royals smashed them in 5 games anyway.


Dec 8, 2016 -- 12:17PM, cessame wrote:

You can go thronthis (sic) rebuilding process with your lineup and whatever you want it seems as tho they never address the starting rotation... which is ultimately the most important formula for winning.. I don't get it..



Championship teams are not just good at pitching; they're almost always good at most things, if not everything. A rebuilding team must rebuild all over, which is what the Yanks are doing, even as they try to stay in the race.




Keep drinking the Kool AidIf we are rebuilding as you say explain to me where the foundation is for the rotation 2 years from now when we are suppose to contend?


They should be adding a piece here and a piece there. It won't happen over night. If people think we are gonna have a legitimate rotation 2 years from now if we don't start adding pieces now then they are in gaga land. Remember this organization has not developed a legitimate starter in years.



I think they are hoping to fill two spots between Acevedo, Kaprielian, Sheffield, Tate and Severino. All appear to have stuff that translates to middle - top end rotation guys. If two guys pan out we have plent of 4's and 5's. We would then be in a position to add an ace or hope Tanaka stays a top end guy and we can retain him.

6 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2016 - 3:49AM #16
qwik3457
Posts: 12,659

Dec 17, 2016 -- 3:42PM, bruner4329 wrote:


Keep drinking the Kool AidIf we are rebuilding as you say explain to me where the foundation is for the rotation 2 years from now when we are suppose to contend?


They should be adding a piece here and a piece there. It won't happen over night. If people think we are gonna have a legitimate rotation 2 years from now if we don't start adding pieces now then they are in gaga land. Remember this organization has not developed a legitimate starter in years.



They are rebuilding. I see it. Just about everyone else sees it.


In the last dynasty, the Yanks didn't add starters until a lot more pieces were in place. Jimmy Key came in 1993. Boggs, O'Neill, and Bernie were already in the lineup. No starter on the 1995 team was added in 1994. McDowell, Pettitte and Cone joined the rotation in 1995. By that point, Leyritz, Strawberry and Jeter had made appearances, and Mariano had moved to relief. But the Yankees had already been contenders for two years before all those players were added. It wasn't until 1996 that Gooden and Rogers were added, and McDowell left, while, at the same time, Jeter, Tino, Duncan and Girardi joined the lineup, and Raines and Fielder joined the bench.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
6 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2016 - 3:51AM #17
qwik3457
Posts: 12,659

Dec 18, 2016 -- 10:47AM, JonahFalcon wrote:


You can directly blame this on Brian Cashman, who can't draft to save his life.


nypost.com/2016/12/17/examining-why-yank...


The Yankees’ inability to successfully turn over their rotation with youth reflects a sustained period of poor draft/development. There were 170 pitchers who started at least 12 games in 2016. Of those 170, the Reds, with two, signed the fewest of any MLB team to their first pro contracts out of the draft or international market. The Yankees had three (Kennedy, Tanaka and Ivan Nova), tied with the A’s and Tigers for the next fewest. Of those, only Kennedy was drafted.




Except the Yankees' bad drafts pre-date Cashman's arrival at GM by about five years, around the time Sabean jumped out of the organization to avoid getting caught in the Boss George/Gene Michael fights. Mark Newman was put in charge of that part of the organization in 1996, and he didn't leave until two years ago.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
6 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2016 - 1:33PM #18
bruner4329
Posts: 4,852

Dec 20, 2016 -- 3:49AM, qwik3457 wrote:


Dec 17, 2016 -- 3:42PM, bruner4329 wrote:


Keep drinking the Kool AidIf we are rebuilding as you say explain to me where the foundation is for the rotation 2 years from now when we are suppose to contend?


They should be adding a piece here and a piece there. It won't happen over night. If people think we are gonna have a legitimate rotation 2 years from now if we don't start adding pieces now then they are in gaga land. Remember this organization has not developed a legitimate starter in years.



They are rebuilding. I see it. Just about everyone else sees it.


In the last dynasty, the Yanks didn't add starters until a lot more pieces were in place. Jimmy Key came in 1993. Boggs, O'Neill, and Bernie were already in the lineup. No starter on the 1995 team was added in 1994. McDowell, Pettitte and Cone joined the rotation in 1995. By that point, Leyritz, Strawberry and Jeter had made appearances, and Mariano had moved to relief. But the Yankees had already been contenders for two years before all those players were added. It wasn't until 1996 that Gooden and Rogers were added, and McDowell left, while, at the same time, Jeter, Tino, Duncan and Girardi joined the lineup, and Raines and Fielder joined the bench.




Yeah but they also had a better rotation back then. During that time you speak of they had guys like Jim Abbott, Scott Kamenicki, Bob Wickman and even Sterling Hitchcock pitching in. Some of these are not glamour names but at least they held their own and helped build the foundation going forward. We have gone through 2+ seasons already with a starting rotation that cannot consistently provide any depth. It has taxed the bullpen and will continue to. Its counter productive. You can not ask your bullpen to give 3 to 4 innings every 4 out of 5 days. It won't work.


Also one other critical point you fail to mention. The game is completely different now with revenue sharing. Teams hold on to their best players and those that don't want to get an arm and a leg for starting pitching. When you have the opprtunity to  grab some at a reasonable cost you do it. The days of trading for a David Cone for 2 minor league guys that are marginal are gone. The days of signing a good pitcher in FA to a good but reasonable contract are gone (Wells).  It has to be done over time not within a year or 2 unless somehow you have all these great arms in the minors and strike gold like the Mets did and even there they made some + trades bringing in Syndegard and a Wheeler.





6 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2016 - 2:05PM #19
nystripes2
Posts: 6,287
Yankees have a clear #1 (and they'll retain Tanaka), what they need is a bonafide #2 (thats why Im high on trading for Quintana). The rest out of Kaprielian, Sheffield, Adams, etc would only then need to be a 3.
6 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2016 - 2:21PM #20
bruner4329
Posts: 4,852

Dec 20, 2016 -- 2:05PM, nystripes2 wrote:

Yankees have a clear #1 (and they'll retain Tanaka), what they need is a bonafide #2 (thats why Im high on trading for Quintana). The rest out of Kaprielian, Sheffield, Adams, etc would only then need to be a 3.



They really have no choice but to try and retain Tanaka even though the price will be high and the risk LT also. Which really brings you back to the plan or lack of. By not acquiring a legitimate starter this off season they have really painted themselves into a corner.

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