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Yankees Are Willing To Pay Half Or So Of Ellsbury's Contract In Any Potential Deal...
5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 12:32PM #31
hampfan
Posts: 3,738

Dec 11, 2017 -- 12:02PM, dixieyank wrote:


Dec 11, 2017 -- 11:51AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:



What's the point of trading Hicks?  He is not being paid anything so it doesn't help us with the luxury tax.  I think we have to keep Hicks or Gardner for versatility.




Roster space, logjam in the OF, and the fact he is infinitely more movable than Ellsbury. Add to that, I think his stock is as high as it will ever be, as I think he regresses to the mean if they keep him.


He made $1.35m last year coming off a -0.3 WAR. What's he get after coming off a 3.9 WAR in 2017?





Newinn will (rightly) get on my case with this, but I'll bite anyway: why, when we're talking about OF roster space, no one mentions Gardner's moving on? Both he and Ellsbury are blocking agents for younger players at this point. He's to be 35 midsummer, so when does his (inevitable) mid-to-late-age fade start happening, despite his last season's (to use a metaphor) pre-November shower of fall-colored leaves? He's moveable precisely because of last season (Cashman couldn't find a match for him elsewhere in previous off-season discussions w/ other GMs). Ellsbury's not moveable without extreme cost--and even then, only maybe, i.e., if he agrees. Gardner's more valuable in any trade (package) for a solid 4th or 5th starter; and say what you want, Hicks is still young and powerful and growing into his role. This "don't touch" sacrosanct attitude toward Gardner puzzles me. He's a lifetime .260ish hitter with consistently poor postseason stats; and yes, he's good defensively (so is Ellsbury) and has had great WAR seasons--when not injured, but, okay, still eminently replaceable. The standard for me for great Yankee left-fielders was the LH oft-platooned Gene Woodling (2.2 lifetime WAR), who always hit above .280 with vital statistics in fielding--Stengel loved him, and yet he got traded after six years and having participated in five Yankee World Series! And we have hangdog worship of Gardner? I'll go along with him in CF if Ellsbury somehow leaves and Hicks gets traded--we can afford another lightwight out there--but please let him go after 2018 at least.

5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 12:42PM #32
newinn
Posts: 38,827

Dec 11, 2017 -- 12:32PM, hampfan wrote:


Dec 11, 2017 -- 12:02PM, dixieyank wrote:


Dec 11, 2017 -- 11:51AM, louisiana_lightning wrote:



What's the point of trading Hicks?  He is not being paid anything so it doesn't help us with the luxury tax.  I think we have to keep Hicks or Gardner for versatility.




Roster space, logjam in the OF, and the fact he is infinitely more movable than Ellsbury. Add to that, I think his stock is as high as it will ever be, as I think he regresses to the mean if they keep him.


He made $1.35m last year coming off a -0.3 WAR. What's he get after coming off a 3.9 WAR in 2017?





Newinn will (rightly) get on my case with this, but I'll bite anyway: why, when we're talking about OF roster space, no one mentions Gardner's moving on? Both he and Ellsbury are blocking agents for younger players at this point. He's to be 35 midsummer, so when does his (inevitable) mid-to-late-age fade start happening, despite his last season's (to use a metaphor) pre-November shower of fall-colored leaves? He's moveable precisely because of last season (Cashman couldn't find a match for him elsewhere in previous off-season discussions w/ other GMs). Ellsbury's not moveable without extreme cost--and even then, only maybe, i.e., if he agrees. Gardner's more valuable in any trade (package) for a solid 4th or 5th starter; and say what you want, Hicks is still young and powerful and growing into his role. This "don't touch" sacrosanct attitude toward Gardner puzzles me. He's a lifetime .260ish hitter with consistently poor postseason stats; and yes, he's good defensively (so is Ellsbury) and has had great WAR seasons--when not injured, but, okay, still eminently replaceable. The standard for me for great Yankee left-fielders was the LH oft-platooned Gene Woodling (2.2 lifetime WAR), who always hit above .280 with vital statistics in fielding--Stengel loved him, and yet he got traded after six years and having participated in five Yankee World Series! And we have hangdog worship of Gardner? I'll go along with him in CF if Ellsbury somehow leaves and Hicks gets traded--we can afford another lightwight out there--but please let him go after 2018 at least.




How can a player you have hated for years be traded for any value. Based on your evaluation he's not worth moe than a Little Leaguer. 


I mentioned in a thread that I'd with all the changes and Gardners leadership role in the clubhouse, I'd be carefulabout getting rid of him. If they do they do but I'm betting most Yankee fans willfind out just how much he will be missed. No I don't expect you tomiss him Hamp

5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 1:25PM #33
dixieyank
Posts: 6,881

Dec 11, 2017 -- 12:21PM, newinn wrote:


with all of the roster changes and the youth and the management changes, I've read that Gardner played a huge leadership role in the Yankee clubhouse. I'd be careful in being so quick to unload him




Judge, Stanton, Ellsbury, Gardner, Hicks, Frazier.................Cave, McKinney, Austin in reserve unless they lose some to rule 5.


Somebody has to go. I don't see anyone taking even 50% of Ells on. Who do you move? 


I don't move Frazier unless it's a big deal, like Machado or a starter. That leaves Hicks and Gardner. At least one needs to be moved IMO.


Personally, if I can, I move both because you have some depth right now. I don't see Gardner lasting more than one more year. I think they use the buyout and he's gone after 2018 no matter. Hicks I don't think is the guy they saw last season early. I think his value will never be higher.

5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 2:23PM #34
goynksgo
Posts: 28
Why not trade Ells for Dee Gordon...isnt Seattle trying to convert him to CF and we can use a 2B...throw some cash and prospects
5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 2:25PM #35
Cocopugg
Posts: 7,086

Dec 11, 2017 -- 9:05AM, kyloren wrote:






River Ave. Blues Retweeted


Yankees are believed willing to pay half or so of the 68M to go on ellsbury in a potential trade. Bigger hurdle: getting him to waive full no-trade clause (he wants to stay)




No player wants to stay where they're not wanted. That may be in their clause but if the right deal comes along, and they know they're still going to be gettin the $$$, they're usually fine with being traded...as long as they don't have to play for a rotten team like the Tigers or something.

5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 3:30PM #36
hampfan
Posts: 3,738

Dec 11, 2017 -- 12:42PM, newinn wrote:





Newinn will (rightly) get on my case with this, but I'll bite anyway: why, when we're talking about OF roster space, no one mentions Gardner's moving on? Both he and Ellsbury are blocking agents for younger players at this point. He's to be 35 midsummer, so when does his (inevitable) mid-to-late-age fade start happening, despite his last season's (to use a metaphor) pre-November shower of fall-colored leaves? He's moveable precisely because of last season (Cashman couldn't find a match for him elsewhere in previous off-season discussions w/ other GMs). Ellsbury's not moveable without extreme cost--and even then, only maybe, i.e., if he agrees. Gardner's more valuable in any trade (package) for a solid 4th or 5th starter; and say what you want, Hicks is still young and powerful and growing into his role. This "don't touch" sacrosanct attitude toward Gardner puzzles me. He's a lifetime .260ish hitter with consistently poor postseason stats; and yes, he's good defensively (so is Ellsbury) and has had great WAR seasons--when not injured, but, okay, still eminently replaceable. The standard for me for great Yankee left-fielders was the LH oft-platooned Gene Woodling (2.2 lifetime WAR), who always hit above .280 with vital statistics in fielding--Stengel loved him, and yet he got traded after six years and having participated in five Yankee World Series! And we have hangdog worship of Gardner? I'll go along with him in CF if Ellsbury somehow leaves and Hicks gets traded--we can afford another lightwight out there--but please let him go after 2018 at least.




How can a player you have hated for years be traded for any value. Based on your evaluation he's not worth moe than a Little Leaguer. 


I mentioned in a thread that I'd with all the changes and Gardners leadership role in the clubhouse, I'd be carefulabout getting rid of him. If they do they do but I'm betting most Yankee fans willfind out just how much he will be missed. No I don't expect you tomiss him Hamp




Hey, New, Merry Christmas and Great Holidays to you. Yeah, I know I'm egregiously biased against Gardner and also realize most NYY fans want him around. Maybe one day, even three years from now when he's still playing LF, he'll be running around the bases after he singles but's turning it into a triple, and all of a sudden he'll metamorphose into a bronze (why not "bronx") statue, as if sculpted in the act of his transcendent abilities. I have to say, I hadn't thought of Woodling whom I used to love to watch on a black and white TV (I'm 77 now), and Gardner led me back that memory of that wonderful player. So no, I don't "hate" him. Maybe Woodling's the unfair archetype I've been measuring him against. As I've said before, you have no worries, for they'll indeed "be careful about" keeping him. He would've been Billy Martin's favorite player.

5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 6:04PM #37
Patty
Posts: 1,677
New, I am with you.  Keep Gardner.  He is great with the kids.
5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 6:39PM #38
doubleplay643
Posts: 6,115

I think Ellsbury has some name value left, just not much. It depends on what the acquiring team views Ellsbury. Some may view him higher than others. If Ellsbury gets moved, I'm thinking it's more towards closer to Spring Training when teams finish filling out their teams. The framework of a deal may be talked about during the Winter Meetings but I doubt anything gets done.

5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 6:39PM #39
TheManMike
Posts: 2,857

Hicks is probably the more likely to stay since he's a switch hitter and the better defender than Gardner and Ellsbury. Red Thunder should only go in a deal that brings back a good upgrade in the rotation OR to spell third baseman (cough Longoria or Machado cough?).

5 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2017 - 6:47PM #40
doubleplay643
Posts: 6,115

Gardner is more valuable to the Yankees than Ellsbury who can create havoc with his speed, has a good glove and an accurate arm. I do understand why Gardner would fetch more back than Ellsbury or any of the depth the Yankees have in their outfield. It'd just be tough to see and expect all of Gardner, Ellsbury, Hicks, Frazier all be up with the big league club and have enough ABs to even be slightly be useful and fresh for the Yanks all year long. Someone does need to go. I trust that Cashman and co. will figure it out.

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