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SO, WHO DO YOU CHEER FOR IN ALDS? CHEATERS OR YOUR ENEMY?
1 month ago  ::  Oct 24, 2021 - 7:21PM #71
Paterson
Posts: 7,321

Oct 24, 2021 -- 11:45AM, hampfan wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 8:53PM, Paterson wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 9:06AM, BoogiedownBx wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 7:55AM, Lola wrote:

Boston folded like a cheap suit! Cora ran out of magic tricks. As much as I hate Red Sox... I can NOT stand Altuve and the cheaters! I will not be watching The World Series. In my opinion MLB should be ashamed of themselves for not taking away the 2017 title from cheaters, and allowing the players who cheated to go unpunished.



Yep. If Manfred had any shame this would be his nightmare scenario and he should be feeling like crud. The two proven cheaters make it to the ALCS, and the cheatiest of the 2 make it to the World Series, in part because there were no tangible consequences for them.


Go NL.




     Just one more piece of dirty laundry MLB opted to cover up. 




In my no doubt controversial opinion here:

Cheating is a seemingly private and even secret means for one party (person, group, society) to arrive at a desired goal with a good amount of certainty, notably without sharing that means for doing so with other competitive parties. When we contrived the atom bomb during WWII without sharing “how” with others, allies, neutrals, and enemies alike (Britain, the Soviet Union, the Nigerians, Germany, Japan, say), was that “cheating”? Most of us would say no because the goal was a good one--for us--namely to end the War, albeit by killing civilians on a mass scale: those governed and likely coerced one way or another to support their (to us) enemy leaders.

My point is: even if not recognizing one has done so (so quick does the power of rationalizing away uncomfortable caveats overtake us), let him or her who hasn’t cheated in one segment or another in one’s life, and to realize whatever end, throw, as it were, the first stone. Going from the sublime to the ridiculous, I think that the Houston baseball team that cheated deserved the punishment and public shame it received when discovered. But I doubt that Dusty Baker and his players cheated this time around, or, for that matter, Cora and his Red Sox team (for instance: he publicly called out his pitchers not to use the “sticky substance” once it got banned--I didn’t read anywhere that Boone did the same--or did I miss that lecture?). And there’s also this: did Houston really cheat any more than other teams could accuse the old dynastic Yankees of doing given their (our) owners’--especially at the time and with no MLB checks in place)--unshared wealth, and thus perennial ability to sign top-gun ball-players?

Don’t get me wrong. I felt the joy of those old Yankee teams, and resent Hal’s present-day, self-wealth-driven resistance to go beyond the MLB tax-cap. But while I’m for the Braves to win the World Series this time around, it’s not because I consider the present Houston team (including, yes, Altuve) cheaters.




    Hamp my friend your post has me swimming a little beyond the lifeguard bouys. I am not sure about agreements among allies in WW II and the ills of contempory America are above my paygrade. But I am sure that MLB is a game with rules and the Commissioner is expected to respect the rules.  


    One of the problems with "looking the other way" when rules are not followed, whehter the issue is pine tar on bats, steroids in locker rooms, sticky stuff on baseballs or sign stealing via technology, is that if left uinchecked more and more effort is put into the praciice until it dominates the game. Canididly, my issue is with Manfred, not the Houston organization or its players. 

1 month ago  ::  Oct 25, 2021 - 6:37AM #72
hampfan
Posts: 3,684

Oct 24, 2021 -- 7:21PM, Paterson wrote:


Oct 24, 2021 -- 11:45AM, hampfan wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 8:53PM, Paterson wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 9:06AM, BoogiedownBx wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 7:55AM, Lola wrote:

Boston folded like a cheap suit! Cora ran out of magic tricks. As much as I hate Red Sox... I can NOT stand Altuve and the cheaters! I will not be watching The World Series. In my opinion MLB should be ashamed of themselves for not taking away the 2017 title from cheaters, and allowing the players who cheated to go unpunished.



Yep. If Manfred had any shame this would be his nightmare scenario and he should be feeling like crud. The two proven cheaters make it to the ALCS, and the cheatiest of the 2 make it to the World Series, in part because there were no tangible consequences for them.


Go NL.




     Just one more piece of dirty laundry MLB opted to cover up. 




In my no doubt controversial opinion here:

Cheating is a seemingly private and even secret means for one party (person, group, society) to arrive at a desired goal with a good amount of certainty, notably without sharing that means for doing so with other competitive parties. When we contrived the atom bomb during WWII without sharing “how” with others, allies, neutrals, and enemies alike (Britain, the Soviet Union, the Nigerians, Germany, Japan, say), was that “cheating”? Most of us would say no because the goal was a good one--for us--namely to end the War, albeit by killing civilians on a mass scale: those governed and likely coerced one way or another to support their (to us) enemy leaders.

My point is: even if not recognizing one has done so (so quick does the power of rationalizing away uncomfortable caveats overtake us), let him or her who hasn’t cheated in one segment or another in one’s life, and to realize whatever end, throw, as it were, the first stone. Going from the sublime to the ridiculous, I think that the Houston baseball team that cheated deserved the punishment and public shame it received when discovered. But I doubt that Dusty Baker and his players cheated this time around, or, for that matter, Cora and his Red Sox team (for instance: he publicly called out his pitchers not to use the “sticky substance” once it got banned--I didn’t read anywhere that Boone did the same--or did I miss that lecture?). And there’s also this: did Houston really cheat any more than other teams could accuse the old dynastic Yankees of doing given their (our) owners’--especially at the time and with no MLB checks in place)--unshared wealth, and thus perennial ability to sign top-gun ball-players?

Don’t get me wrong. I felt the joy of those old Yankee teams, and resent Hal’s present-day, self-wealth-driven resistance to go beyond the MLB tax-cap. But while I’m for the Braves to win the World Series this time around, it’s not because I consider the present Houston team (including, yes, Altuve) cheaters.




    Hamp my friend your post has me swimming a little beyond the lifeguard bouys. I am not sure about agreements among allies in WW II and the ills of contempory America are above my paygrade. But I am sure that MLB is a game with rules and the Commissioner is expected to respect the rules.  


    One of the problems with "looking the other way" when rules are not followed, whehter the issue is pine tar on bats, steroids in locker rooms, sticky stuff on baseballs or sign stealing via technology, is that if left uinchecked more and more effort is put into the praciice until it dominates the game. Canididly, my issue is with Manfred, not the Houston organization or its players. 




Pat, I concede to your argument. I was trying to resist the moral outrage still levied by some against the Houston team today, which as far as I can tell has played by the rules.

1 month ago  ::  Oct 25, 2021 - 4:51PM #73
davis2
Posts: 19,122

Oct 20, 2021 -- 7:48PM, Giancarlo wrote:


Oct 20, 2021 -- 7:36PM, davis2 wrote:


Oct 19, 2021 -- 6:04PM, 1955nyyfan wrote:

By the way, need to make a correction. My new puppy is a Goldendoodle. I keep referring to him as a Labradoodle because he is black. I'd never seen a black Goldendoodle before. Anyway, he's a great pup and adjusting well to his new home.



I'm getting a new blue heeler this weekend. His name is Jackson, but I may call him Reggie!


Most of you don't know, but my avatar is my late baby, Maya, the snowmobile riding dog!




Yankees legend Reggie Jackson bestows title of Mr. October upon Astros slugger - nj.com




Say it ain't so, Giancarlo!!!!

1 month ago  ::  Oct 25, 2021 - 5:02PM #74
davis2
Posts: 19,122

Oct 24, 2021 -- 11:45AM, hampfan wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 8:53PM, Paterson wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 9:06AM, BoogiedownBx wrote:


Oct 23, 2021 -- 7:55AM, Lola wrote:

Boston folded like a cheap suit! Cora ran out of magic tricks. As much as I hate Red Sox... I can NOT stand Altuve and the cheaters! I will not be watching The World Series. In my opinion MLB should be ashamed of themselves for not taking away the 2017 title from cheaters, and allowing the players who cheated to go unpunished.



Yep. If Manfred had any shame this would be his nightmare scenario and he should be feeling like crud. The two proven cheaters make it to the ALCS, and the cheatiest of the 2 make it to the World Series, in part because there were no tangible consequences for them.


Go NL.




     Just one more piece of dirty laundry MLB opted to cover up. 




In my no doubt controversial opinion here:

Cheating is a seemingly private and even secret means for one party (person, group, society) to arrive at a desired goal with a good amount of certainty, notably without sharing that means for doing so with other competitive parties. When we contrived the atom bomb during WWII without sharing “how” with others, allies, neutrals, and enemies alike (Britain, the Soviet Union, the Nigerians, Germany, Japan, say), was that “cheating”? Most of us would say no because the goal was a good one--for us--namely to end the War, albeit by killing civilians on a mass scale: those governed and likely coerced one way or another to support their (to us) enemy leaders.

My point is: even if not recognizing one has done so (so quick does the power of rationalizing away uncomfortable caveats overtake us), let him or her who hasn’t cheated in one segment or another in one’s life, and to realize whatever end, throw, as it were, the first stone. Going from the sublime to the ridiculous, I think that the Houston baseball team that cheated deserved the punishment and public shame it received when discovered. But I doubt that Dusty Baker and his players cheated this time around, or, for that matter, Cora and his Red Sox team (for instance: he publicly called out his pitchers not to use the “sticky substance” once it got banned--I didn’t read anywhere that Boone did the same--or did I miss that lecture?). And there’s also this: did Houston really cheat any more than other teams could accuse the old dynastic Yankees of doing given their (our) owners’--especially at the time and with no MLB checks in place)--unshared wealth, and thus perennial ability to sign top-gun ball-players?

Don’t get me wrong. I felt the joy of those old Yankee teams, and resent Hal’s present-day, self-wealth-driven resistance to go beyond the MLB tax-cap. But while I’m for the Braves to win the World Series this time around, it’s not because I consider the present Houston team (including, yes, Altuve) cheaters.



That sounds like an Asstro fan's rationalization for cheating...


What is "fair" in war or love isn't necessarily true in a sporting event.


 But I am happy Bahston is eliminated.

3 weeks ago  ::  Nov 03, 2021 - 11:48AM #75
bumper
Posts: 10,544

phew at least the astros didn't win. some thoughts relating to an earlier discussion ...


congrats to the braves. but were they the “best” team? probably not. the "best" team doesn't always win. they won the fewest games (88) of any post-season team finishing 19 & 18 games behind the giants and dodgers playing in perhaps the weakest division. 31-37 against .500 teams and 3-14 against AL east teams except the O’s. 3 games below .500 in early august followed by 16-2, 8-14 and a 12-2 run to close out the season which they rode into the post-season. definitely the best team in October and ultimately that’s what brings a championship. sure they were plagued by injuries but so were many other teams. watching how good they were, wondered how they could be so mediocre during the regular season.


the odds of going all the way appears to be pretty much equal among all the teams playing in the post-season. history shows any team can win. WC teams have won the WS 7 of 27 times and this year the team w the worst record won.


certainly the yanks were very flawed and inconsistent so it was hard to imagine them going all the way. on the other hand, having watched most of the PS games, all the teams (excepting the braves) were flawed. maybe they weren’t blowout wins but if the team that was 22-8 or 35-11 showed up, who knows. not saying that validates any strategy on the yankees F.O.” just to make the post-season” (which i'm sure it isn't), but based on past history, there is "some" legitimacy to the idea. 

3 weeks ago  ::  Nov 03, 2021 - 1:11PM #76
luvdayanks
Posts: 30,735

Nov 3, 2021 -- 11:48AM, bumper wrote:


phew at least the astros didn't win. some thoughts relating to an earlier discussion ...


congrats to the braves. but were they the “best” team? probably not. the "best" team doesn't always win. they won the fewest games (88) of any post-season team finishing 19 & 18 games behind the giants and dodgers playing in perhaps the weakest division. 31-37 against .500 teams and 3-14 against AL east teams except the O’s. 3 games below .500 in early august followed by 16-2, 8-14 and a 12-2 run to close out the season which they rode into the post-season. definitely the best team in October and ultimately that’s what brings a championship. sure they were plagued by injuries but so were many other teams. watching how good they were, wondered how they could be so mediocre during the regular season.


the odds of going all the way appears to be pretty much equal among all the teams playing in the post-season. history shows any team can win. WC teams have won the WS 7 of 27 times and this year the team w the worst record won.


certainly the yanks were very flawed and inconsistent so it was hard to imagine them going all the way. on the other hand, having watched most of the PS games, all the teams (excepting the braves) were flawed. maybe they weren’t blowout wins but if the team that was 22-8 or 35-11 showed up, who knows. not saying that validates any strategy on the yankees F.O.” just to make the post-season” (which i'm sure it isn't), but based on past history, there is "some" legitimacy to the idea. 




Congrats to the Braves, now get rid of that dumb tomahawk chop. Between listening to Buck and non stop talk Smoltz and the chop, what little I did watch, I muted.

3 weeks ago  ::  Nov 04, 2021 - 4:00PM #77
ssmikey07
Posts: 130

As a long time I rooted against both of them. Rooted for Braves in WS.

3 weeks ago  ::  Nov 05, 2021 - 11:24AM #78
prof. quiz
Posts: 10,187

Nov 3, 2021 -- 11:48AM, bumper wrote:


congrats to the braves. but were they the “best” team? probably not. the "best" team doesn't always win. they won the fewest games (88) of any post-season team finishing 19 & 18 games behind the giants and dodgers playing in perhaps the weakest division. 31-37 against .500 teams and 3-14 against AL east teams except the O’s. 3 games below .500 in early august followed by 16-2, 8-14 and a 12-2 run to close out the season which they rode into the post-season. definitely the best team in October and ultimately that’s what brings a championship. sure they were plagued by injuries but so were many other teams. watching how good they were, wondered how they could be so mediocre during the regular season.




The top tier teams this year ate themselves in a feeding frenzy and then the mediocre Braves came along and cleaned up the scraps.


I'm not impressed in the least.


2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 09, 2021 - 11:18PM #79
JudgeandYankees
Posts: 474

Nov 5, 2021 -- 11:24AM, prof. quiz wrote:


Nov 3, 2021 -- 11:48AM, bumper wrote:


congrats to the braves. but were they the “best” team? probably not. the "best" team doesn't always win. they won the fewest games (88) of any post-season team finishing 19 & 18 games behind the giants and dodgers playing in perhaps the weakest division. 31-37 against .500 teams and 3-14 against AL east teams except the O’s. 3 games below .500 in early august followed by 16-2, 8-14 and a 12-2 run to close out the season which they rode into the post-season. definitely the best team in October and ultimately that’s what brings a championship. sure they were plagued by injuries but so were many other teams. watching how good they were, wondered how they could be so mediocre during the regular season.




The top tier teams this year ate themselves in a feeding frenzy and then the mediocre Braves came along and cleaned up the scraps.


I'm not impressed in the least.





The Braves played very solid fundamental baseball, the little things don't look glamourous but it's what prevented us from going deeper than we did. Gotta give their owner credit he allowed them to add 4 big pieces to the puzzle even though they were below .500 because without those pieces they don't sniff the play-offs.

2 weeks ago  ::  Nov 10, 2021 - 1:51PM #80
jimwest
Posts: 4,783

Nov 5, 2021 -- 11:24AM, prof. quiz wrote:


Nov 3, 2021 -- 11:48AM, bumper wrote:


congrats to the braves. but were they the “best” team? probably not. the "best" team doesn't always win. they won the fewest games (88) of any post-season team finishing 19 & 18 games behind the giants and dodgers playing in perhaps the weakest division. 31-37 against .500 teams and 3-14 against AL east teams except the O’s. 3 games below .500 in early august followed by 16-2, 8-14 and a 12-2 run to close out the season which they rode into the post-season. definitely the best team in October and ultimately that’s what brings a championship. sure they were plagued by injuries but so were many other teams. watching how good they were, wondered how they could be so mediocre during the regular season.




The top tier teams this year ate themselves in a feeding frenzy and then the mediocre Braves came along and cleaned up the scraps.


I'm not impressed in the least.




An 88-73 record isn't "mediocre". They beat the 95 win Brewers, the 106 win Dodgers, and the 95 win Astros. In none of those series did it go the distance. They were not the best team, but played the best when it counted. That was impressive, but I'm sure they won't care who else finds it so when they get their world champion rings. 

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