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2022 payroll reality check
3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 9:52PM #31
Rob
Posts: 2,015

Oct 14, 2021 -- 3:03PM, bumper wrote:


this season's payroll restrictions was about 2 things. one was to reset the LT. mission accomplished. two, was covid. fans don't wanna hear it but they lost a lot of money due to no fans last year and with more uncertainity again & full capacity not allowed until mid-june, they tempered their spending this year.


with the LT reset and back to normal seating, we should see them spend more. contrary to popular "thought", hal wants a winner. like it or not, he spent buckets on stanton and 2 years ago, even more ridiculous money on cole. as misguided as it turned out, both of those moves were supposed to bring a championship. last year he signed DJ. he spends. don't think he's gonna go crazy because seeing what the rays do with a third of the money has to drive him crazy.




I am one of those who "thinks" that for Hal making the playoffs is "good enough."  he reminsd me of a guy who contracts to build a muillion dollar, 400 sq foot house but opts for $6 a sq yard carpeting and formica countertops.


Yes they likely lost money in 2020, but they have also been raking it in hand over fist prior to that.  Smeione presented the data on payroll versus guesstimated income some time back and the take home is that since about 2005, payroll while consistently high, as a percentage of revenue it has been falling.

3 months ago  ::  Oct 17, 2021 - 1:12PM #32
Max
Posts: 8,918

Again, just my 2 cents... But if I was an A's fan, unless the Yankees made the A's a great offer, I wouldn't want the A's GM trading Olsen to the Yankees if the trade didn't include either Peraza or Volpe.

3 months ago  ::  Oct 17, 2021 - 2:58PM #33
Giancarlo
Posts: 316

Oct 17, 2021 -- 1:12PM, Max wrote:


Again, just my 2 cents... But if I was an A's fan, unless the Yankees made the A's a great offer, I wouldn't want the A's GM trading Olsen to the Yankees if the trade didn't include either Peraza or Volpe.




What if it included Torres instead?

3 months ago  ::  Oct 26, 2021 - 1:56PM #34
Max
Posts: 8,918

Oct 17, 2021 -- 2:58PM, Giancarlo wrote:


Oct 17, 2021 -- 1:12PM, Max wrote:


Again, just my 2 cents... But if I was an A's fan, unless the Yankees made the A's a great offer, I wouldn't want the A's GM trading Olsen to the Yankees if the trade didn't include either Peraza or Volpe.




What if it included Torres instead?




Not sure, because I don't know if Torres just had an off year or not. I think Torres has the potential to be a star, but my opinion is that of a fan. A GM should know for sure which Torres he is trading for if he's going to trade a player like Olsen for him.


If the offer is Torres, Voit, Gil, and Medina, that would be a lot for the Yankees to offer. In my opinion, at the very least Bassitt should be included in that trade if he's willing to sign an extension with the Yankees since he can be a free agent after the 2022 season. I doubt that the A's are going to re-sign him if he has another good season.   



3 months ago  ::  Oct 28, 2021 - 12:42PM #35
1955nyyfan
Posts: 2,935

Oct 16, 2021 -- 9:52PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 14, 2021 -- 3:03PM, bumper wrote:


this season's payroll restrictions was about 2 things. one was to reset the LT. mission accomplished. two, was covid. fans don't wanna hear it but they lost a lot of money due to no fans last year and with more uncertainity again & full capacity not allowed until mid-june, they tempered their spending this year.


with the LT reset and back to normal seating, we should see them spend more. contrary to popular "thought", hal wants a winner. like it or not, he spent buckets on stanton and 2 years ago, even more ridiculous money on cole. as misguided as it turned out, both of those moves were supposed to bring a championship. last year he signed DJ. he spends. don't think he's gonna go crazy because seeing what the rays do with a third of the money has to drive him crazy.




I am one of those who "thinks" that for Hal making the playoffs is "good enough."  he reminsd me of a guy who contracts to build a muillion dollar, 400 sq foot house but opts for $6 a sq yard carpeting and formica countertops.


Yes they likely lost money in 2020, but they have also been raking it in hand over fist prior to that.  Smeione presented the data on payroll versus guesstimated income some time back and the take home is that since about 2005, payroll while consistently high, as a percentage of revenue it has been falling.




I think there is a general impression by most fans that spending more money on FAs will result in a Yankee World Series win. Despite the fact we continually spend  more than almost every other franchise it is still somehow not enough. That results into the narrative that Hal is cheap, doesn't want to win, only cares about making money. I'm really curious, how much spending will make fans happy or result in a championship? Is it $300mm? 


Most FAs, even the good ones are overpriced. The debate now is do we resign Rizzo. If we do, I will guarantee he gets an overpay based upon where he is at in his career. If we don't resign him, Hal is cheap. If we do, and he underperforms the Cash will be called an idiot. 

3 months ago  ::  Oct 28, 2021 - 1:23PM #36
bumper
Posts: 10,567

Oct 16, 2021 -- 9:52PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 14, 2021 -- 3:03PM, bumper wrote:


this season's payroll restrictions was about 2 things. one was to reset the LT. mission accomplished. two, was covid. fans don't wanna hear it but they lost a lot of money due to no fans last year and with more uncertainity again & full capacity not allowed until mid-june, they tempered their spending this year.


with the LT reset and back to normal seating, we should see them spend more. contrary to popular "thought", hal wants a winner. like it or not, he spent buckets on stanton and 2 years ago, even more ridiculous money on cole. as misguided as it turned out, both of those moves were supposed to bring a championship. last year he signed DJ. he spends. don't think he's gonna go crazy because seeing what the rays do with a third of the money has to drive him crazy.




I am one of those who "thinks" that for Hal making the playoffs is "good enough."  he reminsd me of a guy who contracts to build a muillion dollar, 400 sq foot house but opts for $6 a sq yard carpeting and formica countertops.


Yes they likely lost money in 2020, but they have also been raking it in hand over fist prior to that.  Smeione presented the data on payroll versus guesstimated income some time back and the take home is that since about 2005, payroll while consistently high, as a percentage of revenue it has been falling.




they believed they had spent and we had enough to win and so did everyone else as we were AL pre-season favorites. despite the flaws and question marks, this looked like a good, contending team. but the wheels fell off.


going back to 2017, we missed the WS by a game, so they went out and got stanton however misguided as that currently looks. they thought he'd put them over the top. hasn't worked out so far.


after 2019 we missed the WS by 2 games in "perhaps" a questionable manner. the need was an ace. so they went out and got THE ace. he was the missing link to a pretty good team. again they thought that move would bring home a championship and that the "countertop" was good enough.


regarding making the playoffs, in the 26 yrs since it's inception, the WC teams have won the WS 7 times - 27% of the time. given that they represent 25% of the "final four" (including the 3 division winners) in each league and they've won a quarter of the championships - the odds of winning are pretty much equal among all the teams playing in the post-season. if that's their strategy (and i disagree - don't think it is), 
then any team can win.


i'm apparently in the minority in not thinking spending $250, 300, 400 mil is necessary to win a WS (and there's no guarantee it would). paying a tax that helps other teams particularly irks me. spending the most up to the LT should be more than enough.





3 months ago  ::  Oct 28, 2021 - 2:36PM #37
bruner4329
Posts: 4,332

Oct 28, 2021 -- 12:42PM, 1955nyyfan wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 9:52PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 14, 2021 -- 3:03PM, bumper wrote:


this season's payroll restrictions was about 2 things. one was to reset the LT. mission accomplished. two, was covid. fans don't wanna hear it but they lost a lot of money due to no fans last year and with more uncertainity again & full capacity not allowed until mid-june, they tempered their spending this year.


with the LT reset and back to normal seating, we should see them spend more. contrary to popular "thought", hal wants a winner. like it or not, he spent buckets on stanton and 2 years ago, even more ridiculous money on cole. as misguided as it turned out, both of those moves were supposed to bring a championship. last year he signed DJ. he spends. don't think he's gonna go crazy because seeing what the rays do with a third of the money has to drive him crazy.




I am one of those who "thinks" that for Hal making the playoffs is "good enough."  he reminsd me of a guy who contracts to build a muillion dollar, 400 sq foot house but opts for $6 a sq yard carpeting and formica countertops.


Yes they likely lost money in 2020, but they have also been raking it in hand over fist prior to that.  Smeione presented the data on payroll versus guesstimated income some time back and the take home is that since about 2005, payroll while consistently high, as a percentage of revenue it has been falling.




I think there is a general impression by most fans that spending more money on FAs will result in a Yankee World Series win. Despite the fact we continually spend  more than almost every other franchise it is still somehow not enough. That results into the narrative that Hal is cheap, doesn't want to win, only cares about making money. I'm really curious, how much spending will make fans happy or result in a championship? Is it $300mm? 


Most FAs, even the good ones are overpriced. The debate now is do we resign Rizzo. If we do, I will guarantee he gets an overpay based upon where he is at in his career. If we don't resign him, Hal is cheap. If we do, and he underperforms the Cash will be called an idiot. 




I don't have any complaints about money this team spends but my problem is with how they spend it. Foolishly giving contracts to guys that are mediocre at best (Hicks), trading for guys that are a luxery and stifle the flexibility of the team (Stanton) and then not having any money left to spend on needs.

3 months ago  ::  Nov 01, 2021 - 10:09PM #38
davis2
Posts: 19,187

Oct 28, 2021 -- 1:23PM, bumper wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 9:52PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 14, 2021 -- 3:03PM, bumper wrote:


this season's payroll restrictions was about 2 things. one was to reset the LT. mission accomplished. two, was covid. fans don't wanna hear it but they lost a lot of money due to no fans last year and with more uncertainity again & full capacity not allowed until mid-june, they tempered their spending this year.


with the LT reset and back to normal seating, we should see them spend more. contrary to popular "thought", hal wants a winner. like it or not, he spent buckets on stanton and 2 years ago, even more ridiculous money on cole. as misguided as it turned out, both of those moves were supposed to bring a championship. last year he signed DJ. he spends. don't think he's gonna go crazy because seeing what the rays do with a third of the money has to drive him crazy.




I am one of those who "thinks" that for Hal making the playoffs is "good enough."  he reminsd me of a guy who contracts to build a muillion dollar, 400 sq foot house but opts for $6 a sq yard carpeting and formica countertops.


Yes they likely lost money in 2020, but they have also been raking it in hand over fist prior to that.  Smeione presented the data on payroll versus guesstimated income some time back and the take home is that since about 2005, payroll while consistently high, as a percentage of revenue it has been falling.




they believed they had spent and we had enough to win and so did everyone else as we were AL pre-season favorites. despite the flaws and question marks, this looked like a good, contending team. but the wheels fell off.


going back to 2017, we missed the WS by a game, so they went out and got stanton however misguided as that currently looks. they thought he'd put them over the top. hasn't worked out so far.


after 2019 we missed the WS by 2 games in "perhaps" a questionable manner. the need was an ace. so they went out and got THE ace. he was the missing link to a pretty good team. again they thought that move would bring home a championship and that the "countertop" was good enough.


regarding making the playoffs, in the 26 yrs since it's inception, the WC teams have won the WS 7 times - 27% of the time. given that they represent 25% of the "final four" (including the 3 division winners) in each league and they've won a quarter of the championships - the odds of winning are pretty much equal among all the teams playing in the post-season. if that's their strategy (and i disagree - don't think it is), 
then any team can win.


i'm apparently in the minority in not thinking spending $250, 300, 400 mil is necessary to win a WS (and there's no guarantee it would). paying a tax that helps other teams particularly irks me. spending the most up to the LT should be more than enough.







They really need a more well rounded team as opposed to big hairy monsters... I'd take Paulie over Stanton all day long!

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