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Hitting Coach
3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 9:20AM #51
bruner4329
Posts: 4,332

Oct 15, 2021 -- 8:08PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 7:56PM, bruner4329 wrote:


...with this freakin shift all some guys needed to do was go the other way. These guys are professionals and can if they want to but in some cases they just don't want to do it and instead try to hit the 500 ft homer.




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"Going the other way" isn't anywhere near as easy as it sounds for many hitters. Pitchers pitch to the shift, and guys like Sanchez and Voit aren't adept bat handlers...never have been, never will be.




Pitchers make mistakes in every sequence. It is just whether a batter can hit the mistake. You bring up Voit and Sanchez. How many times have we seen Voit swing wildly at a pitch breaking away. You can see it coming and yet he keeps pulling off and trying to pull the ball. That is nothing to do with pitching to the shift. I mean both Stanton and Judge do that on ocaasion but if you noticed this year they both starting going the other way at times. Voit could do it its just he is a stubborn and dumb hitter. Same with Sanchez. He can go the other way. Case in point when he first came up he was driving the ball to right center at times. That has been very rare in recent times. His biggest hit in the playoffs against Houston in Game 5 was a double to right center that scored 2 and gave us the win. They can do it its just they won't.

3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 10:05AM #52
SSBob
Posts: 9,379

Oct 16, 2021 -- 9:20AM, bruner4329 wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 8:08PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 7:56PM, bruner4329 wrote:


...with this freakin shift all some guys needed to do was go the other way. These guys are professionals and can if they want to but in some cases they just don't want to do it and instead try to hit the 500 ft homer.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"Going the other way" isn't anywhere near as easy as it sounds for many hitters. Pitchers pitch to the shift, and guys like Sanchez and Voit aren't adept bat handlers...never have been, never will be.




Pitchers make mistakes in every sequence. It is just whether a batter can hit the mistake. You bring up Voit and Sanchez. How many times have we seen Voit swing wildly at a pitch breaking away. You can see it coming and yet he keeps pulling off and trying to pull the ball. That is nothing to do with pitching to the shift. I mean both Stanton and Judge do that on ocaasion but if you noticed this year they both starting going the other way at times. Voit could do it its just he is a stubborn and dumb hitter. Same with Sanchez. He can go the other way. Case in point when he first came up he was driving the ball to right center at times. That has been very rare in recent times. His biggest hit in the playoffs against Houston in Game 5 was a double to right center that scored 2 and gave us the win. They can do it its just they won't.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I only mentioned Voit & Sanchez as examples you had used in your previous post, but I don’t disagree at all re both of them swinging wildly at pitches well out of the zone. Most of that has to do with pitch recognition, which is becoming harder with today’s pitchers. As I said…we see very good hitters do the same thing at times. Trea Turner Kd on 3 pitches just like that in Thursday’s game.


My point is when posters say “all he has to do” to beat the shift is hit the other way makes it sound as if it’s easy. It’s not. Hitters like Jeter and even DJ were/are adept at being able to inside out a pitch…take an inside pitch the other way. That’s why teams don’t normally shift on DJ. 


My point re pitchers pitching to the shift is that, as you said, it takes a mistake...an outside pitch...for guys like Voit & Sanchez to hit the other way. That, or their swing is late. Not saying it’s not something they and every other hitter shouldn’t work on, but it does require work.




3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 10:11AM #53
NW
Posts: 3,652

Oct 14, 2021 -- 5:02PM, yankoldfan wrote:


My question is this, can hitters like Judge, Gallo, Voit change their style of hitting with another hittiing coach ?? So many complain about Stanton and his hitting but if you watch him when he swings, although it isn't a pretty swing, he does hit line drives way more than Judge, Gallo or Voit... They mostly swing for launch numbers, I think that's why they hit so many high fly balls or ground out... They are upper cutting on the baseball, when they hit the ball correctly it goes up in the air and sometimes over the fences, but when they hit on the top 1/2 of the ball they tend to hit too many weak grounders...




You're in the right church but the wrong pew.  No hitting coach on the planet is going to change Gallo and Voit.  (I'll leave Judge out of the mix, mainly because he has shown the ability to hit liners the other way and with his frame, he does so for power too.  His issue is that he doesn't do it often enough.)  Remember when Tex played for us and people ripped him for basically saying "I am what I am" as a hitter?  The Yankees don't need to change Gallo or Voit.  What they need to do is change the philosophy of others in the lineup that have become launch angle robots and it hasn't helped them one bit.  If you look at Gleyber, Andujar, Sanchez, and even DJLM, the Yankee philosophy of hitting doesn't work for them and they've even regressed under it.  Heck, even Gardner has struggled under that system for many years.  You can have a few big boppers in your lineup and you'll have to live with the K's and DP's, but when 7 or 8 guys in the linenup are doing it, the Yankees become an easy team to beat.

3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 10:16AM #54
SSBob
Posts: 9,379

Oct 16, 2021 -- 4:48AM, El Guapo wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:56PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:44PM, El Guapo wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:30PM, newinn wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:24PM, Lola wrote:

Not surprising Thames is the sacrificial lamb... looks like Boonie may be off the hook. I don't like the blame game, when it comes to players underperforming, but... Don't know why this offense failed so miserably... other than Judge and Stanton. Thames is the hitting coach so it seems appropriate he's taking the blame.



That's the way it works just never sure it's right. Remeber that pitching coach the Braves had back in the 90's when they had that tremendous staff of Smoltz, Glavine and the great pitcher whos name escapes me, man that coach was the toaste of the town. He went to (I think the Orioles) and couldn't last 3 years




Greg Maddux and Leo Mazzone.  




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I thought it was John Rocker.




I could be wrong, Bob.  It's happened before.  


New and Luv among many others, however, consider me their one-stop source for all things baseball related!


Trust in the Guap!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Just kidding...

3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 10:51AM #55
yankoldfan
Posts: 11,593

Oct 16, 2021 -- 10:11AM, NW wrote:


Oct 14, 2021 -- 5:02PM, yankoldfan wrote:


My question is this, can hitters like Judge, Gallo, Voit change their style of hitting with another hittiing coach ?? So many complain about Stanton and his hitting but if you watch him when he swings, although it isn't a pretty swing, he does hit line drives way more than Judge, Gallo or Voit... They mostly swing for launch numbers, I think that's why they hit so many high fly balls or ground out... They are upper cutting on the baseball, when they hit the ball correctly it goes up in the air and sometimes over the fences, but when they hit on the top 1/2 of the ball they tend to hit too many weak grounders...




You're in the right church but the wrong pew.  No hitting coach on the planet is going to change Gallo and Voit.  (I'll leave Judge out of the mix, mainly because he has shown the ability to hit liners the other way and with his frame, he does so for power too.  His issue is that he doesn't do it often enough.)  Remember when Tex played for us and people ripped him for basically saying "I am what I am" as a hitter?  The Yankees don't need to change Gallo or Voit.  What they need to do is change the philosophy of others in the lineup that have become launch angle robots and it hasn't helped them one bit.  If you look at Gleyber, Andujar, Sanchez, and even DJLM, the Yankee philosophy of hitting doesn't work for them and they've even regressed under it.  Heck, even Gardner has struggled under that system for many years.  You can have a few big boppers in your lineup and you'll have to live with the K's and DP's, but when 7 or 8 guys in the linenup are doing it, the Yankees become an easy team to beat.




That's exactly why we don't need hitters like Gallo and Voit... Even old dogs can learn new tricks... Think that hurt Tex was the shift as it has so many hitters... I played this game many a years ago and don't tell me it's so hard to hit the other way when pitches are away from you... In most cases, good hitters can hit the ball just as hard when it's pitched away from it as they can if it's pitched inside... 


3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 12:08PM #56
El Guapo
Posts: 295

Oct 16, 2021 -- 10:16AM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 4:48AM, El Guapo wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:56PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:44PM, El Guapo wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:30PM, newinn wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:24PM, Lola wrote:

Not surprising Thames is the sacrificial lamb... looks like Boonie may be off the hook. I don't like the blame game, when it comes to players underperforming, but... Don't know why this offense failed so miserably... other than Judge and Stanton. Thames is the hitting coach so it seems appropriate he's taking the blame.



That's the way it works just never sure it's right. Remeber that pitching coach the Braves had back in the 90's when they had that tremendous staff of Smoltz, Glavine and the great pitcher whos name escapes me, man that coach was the toaste of the town. He went to (I think the Orioles) and couldn't last 3 years




Greg Maddux and Leo Mazzone.  




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I thought it was John Rocker.




I could be wrong, Bob.  It's happened before.  


New and Luv among many others, however, consider me their one-stop source for all things baseball related!


Trust in the Guap!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Just kidding...




I figured as much, Bob.  As much as I mess around on here, I expect and enjoy it when others give me the business once in a while.  LaughingLaughing

3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 12:38PM #57
Rob
Posts: 2,015

Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:02PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 8:38PM, newinn wrote:


What I should have said is that we have no idea how effective coaches are in their job. 




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Over the years I've learned coaching is only effective with those who are coachable.




The lack of situational hitting, especially just trying to put the ball in play to get a runner home from 3B instead of swinging from the heels suggests Thames and Pileterre were working with a fair number of uncoachables.  Likewise for whomever was in charge of trying to get them to be better base runners.

3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 12:43PM #58
SSBob
Posts: 9,379

Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:38PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:02PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 8:38PM, newinn wrote:


What I should have said is that we have no idea how effective coaches are in their job. 




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Over the years I've learned coaching is only effective with those who are coachable.




The lack of situational hitting, especially just trying to put the ball in play to get a runner home from 3B instead of swinging from the heels suggests Thames and Pileterre were working with a fair number of uncoachables.  Luikewise whowever was in charge of trying to get them to be better base runners.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Surprising that ML ballplayers, who've been playing the game and coached since youth leagues, need baserunning instruction.

3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 12:44PM #59
Rob
Posts: 2,015

I see that they have eliminated the ghost base runner in extra innings for the playoffs.  but assuming it returns for 2022 the next hitting coach needs to be someone who knows how to teach bunting.  With the possible exception of Gardner, no one on the 2021 team can be counted on to get a sacrifice down successfully.  You are not going to ask Judge or Stanton to sacrifuice, but, geez, this is an important skill with the ghost runner scenario.

3 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 12:47PM #60
SSBob
Posts: 9,379

Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:44PM, Rob wrote:


I see that they have eliminated the ghost base runner in extra innings for the playoffs.  but assuming it returns for 2022 the next hitting coach needs to be someone who knows how to teach bunting.  With the possible exception of Gardner, no one on the 2021 team can be counted on to get a sacrifice down successfully.  You are not going to ask Judge or Stanton to sacrifuice, but, geez, this is an important skill with the ghost runner scenario.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Bunting is another facet of the game that's been taken away by analytics. Ironically, the best bunter on the team may be Gallo.



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