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Hitting Coach
9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 12:49PM #61
Rob
Posts: 2,505

Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:43PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:38PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:02PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 8:38PM, newinn wrote:


What I should have said is that we have no idea how effective coaches are in their job. 




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Over the years I've learned coaching is only effective with those who are coachable.




The lack of situational hitting, especially just trying to put the ball in play to get a runner home from 3B instead of swinging from the heels suggests Thames and Pileterre were working with a fair number of uncoachables.  Luikewise whowever was in charge of trying to get them to be better base runners.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Surprising that ML ballplayers, who've been playing the game and coached since youth leagues, need baserunning instruction.




Unless you run through the 3B coach's stop sign, getting thrown out at home is generally on the coach.  But all the outs at other bases suggests this was a team that was fundamentally lacking in baseball smarts when it came to base running, no matter how much coaching they had previously (and, apparently, not particularly receptiove to more coaching).

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 12:55PM #62
SSBob
Posts: 10,619

Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:49PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:43PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:38PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 9:02PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 15, 2021 -- 8:38PM, newinn wrote:


What I should have said is that we have no idea how effective coaches are in their job. 




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Over the years I've learned coaching is only effective with those who are coachable.




The lack of situational hitting, especially just trying to put the ball in play to get a runner home from 3B instead of swinging from the heels suggests Thames and Pileterre were working with a fair number of uncoachables.  Luikewise whowever was in charge of trying to get them to be better base runners.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Surprising that ML ballplayers, who've been playing the game and coached since youth leagues, need baserunning instruction.




Unless you run through the 3B coach's stop sign, getting thrown out at home is generally on the coach.  But all the outs at other bases suggests this was a team that was fundamentally lacking in baseball smarts when it came to base running, no matter how much coaching they had previously (and, apparently, not particularly receptiove to more coaching).




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Right...a baserunner must rely on base coaches, particularly the 3B coach. No doubt there were plenty of bad sends by Nevin, but I also think several of the runners thrown out at home this year were due to bad luck going from 3B on contact.

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 12:58PM #63
vdfebduderocks
Posts: 752

Our overall hitting philosophy needs to be overhauled from the minors up.



Should be based on the following pillars:



1) 100 Ks or less


2) churn .300 hitters and higher (or at least close)


3) more SBs, more contact


4) hit against shifts


5) situational hitting - including bunts, sac flys, etc.



If players can't comply, get rid of them.

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 1:38PM #64
Rob
Posts: 2,505

Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:47PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:44PM, Rob wrote:


I see that they have eliminated the ghost base runner in extra innings for the playoffs.  but assuming it returns for 2022 the next hitting coach needs to be someone who knows how to teach bunting.  With the possible exception of Gardner, no one on the 2021 team can be counted on to get a sacrifice down successfully.  You are not going to ask Judge or Stanton to sacrifuice, but, geez, this is an important skill with the ghost runner scenario.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Bunting is another facet of the game that's been taken away by analytics. Ironically, the best bunter on the team may be Gallo.






Satistically with a runner on 1B and no outs you have a better chance of scoring the runner by letting the next 3 batters swing away versus sacrificing to 2B and letting teh next to hitters hit with one out.  It's not that big, something like 75% to 72%.  But if I recall correctly runner on 2B no outs you are better off sacrificing to 3B in that situation.  Of course that assumes a needing just one run to tie ior go ahead situation like extra innings with the ghost runner.


Interestingly, Gallo has only ONE sac bunt and 2 sac flies for his entire career.  He is roughly equally likely to strike out as he is to get a hit or a walk in his career (885 Ks, 795 hits plus walks - with RISP 226 hits plus walks vs 224 K))

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 2:06PM #65
SSBob
Posts: 10,619

Oct 16, 2021 -- 1:38PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:47PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:44PM, Rob wrote:


I see that they have eliminated the ghost base runner in extra innings for the playoffs.  but assuming it returns for 2022 the next hitting coach needs to be someone who knows how to teach bunting.  With the possible exception of Gardner, no one on the 2021 team can be counted on to get a sacrifice down successfully.  You are not going to ask Judge or Stanton to sacrifuice, but, geez, this is an important skill with the ghost runner scenario.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Bunting is another facet of the game that's been taken away by analytics. Ironically, the best bunter on the team may be Gallo.




Satistically with a runner on 1B and no outs you have a better chance of scoring the runner by letting the next 3 batters swing away versus sacrificing to 2B and letting teh next to hitters hit with one out.  It's not that big, something like 75% to 72%.  But if I recall correctly runner on 2B no outs you are better off sacrificing to 3B in that situation.  Of course that assumes a needing just one run to tie ior go ahead situation like extra innings with the ghost runner.


Interestingly, Gallo has only ONE sac bunt and 2 sac flies for his entire career.  He is roughly equally likely to strike out as he is to get a hit or a walk in his career (885 Ks, 795 hits plus walks - with RISP 226 hits plus walks vs 224 K))




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I thought I'd seen statistically there's a better chance of scoring a runner from 2nd with no outs by hitting away rather than sac bunting him over to 3rd. But seems obvious to me that moving a "ghost runner" to 3rd is the smart move for the home team, or even in the later regulation innings, depending on the score/situation of course. But, as you've said, most ML hitters don't know how to bunt.


As for Gallo...that's the point. He's actually shown himself to be a good bunter when trying to beat the shift, but he's not gonna be called on to move a runner by sac bunting.

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 2:09PM #66
Max
Posts: 9,880

Oct 15, 2021 -- 8:22PM, newinn wrote:


going the other way is not an organizational philosophy. Neither is bunting, neither is shortening up on the bat with two strikes.




And because of that philosophy a team is going to both strikeout a lot and hit into a lot of double-plays no matter who the hitting coach is. You were a Pitcher, so you know that one of the ways to get a ground ball double-play or a strikeout is to throw an out of the strike-zone outside pitch to a pull hitter who expands the strike-zone.

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 2:14PM #67
Max
Posts: 9,880

Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:47PM, SSBob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:44PM, Rob wrote:


I see that they have eliminated the ghost base runner in extra innings for the playoffs.  but assuming it returns for 2022 the next hitting coach needs to be someone who knows how to teach bunting.  With the possible exception of Gardner, no one on the 2021 team can be counted on to get a sacrifice down successfully.  You are not going to ask Judge or Stanton to sacrifuice, but, geez, this is an important skill with the ghost runner scenario.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Bunting is another facet of the game that's been taken away by analytics. Ironically, the best bunter on the team may be Gallo.




Funny that you posted that, because if my memory is correct Dave Kingman was also a very good bunter.

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 4:03PM #68
manbot
Posts: 1,728

Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:58PM, vdfebduderocks wrote:


Our overall hitting philosophy needs to be overhauled from the minors up.



Should be based on the following pillars:



1) 100 Ks or less


2) churn .300 hitters and higher (or at least close)


3) more SBs, more contact


4) hit against shifts


5) situational hitting - including bunts, sac flys, etc.



If players can't comply, get rid of them.




Pretty much nobody in the MLB hits .300 or higher, Strikes out less than 100 times and Steals bases so you will have no one left 

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 5:10PM #69
Rob
Posts: 2,505

Oct 16, 2021 -- 4:03PM, manbot wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:58PM, vdfebduderocks wrote:


Our overall hitting philosophy needs to be overhauled from the minors up.



Should be based on the following pillars:



1) 100 Ks or less


2) churn .300 hitters and higher (or at least close)


3) more SBs, more contact


4) hit against shifts


5) situational hitting - including bunts, sac flys, etc.



If players can't comply, get rid of them.




Pretty much nobody in the MLB hits .300 or higher, Strikes out less than 100 times and Steals bases so you will have no one left 




That's OK.  vdfebduderocks will have tehm cleaning toilets until they comply

9 months ago  ::  Oct 16, 2021 - 5:17PM #70
vdfebduderocks
Posts: 752

Oct 16, 2021 -- 5:10PM, Rob wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 4:03PM, manbot wrote:


Oct 16, 2021 -- 12:58PM, vdfebduderocks wrote:


Our overall hitting philosophy needs to be overhauled from the minors up.



Should be based on the following pillars:



1) 100 Ks or less


2) churn .300 hitters and higher (or at least close)


3) more SBs, more contact


4) hit against shifts


5) situational hitting - including bunts, sac flys, etc.



If players can't comply, get rid of them.




Pretty much nobody in the MLB hits .300 or higher, Strikes out less than 100 times and Steals bases so you will have no one left 




That's OK.  vdfebduderocks will have tehm cleaning toilets until they comply




I never implied players having all 3 of those metrics..... it would be nice if our guys don't strike out 200x like Gallo (can't imagine anyone except his family enjoying this). As far as steals and BA, all the championship teams feature those type of guys, so we should attain them too. Either build them or fine them. 


I easily remember Tex going from a .300 hitter pre-Yankee to .220 because he was just aiming for the bleachers the entire time. That mentality is a loser's mentality and needs to go.


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