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Great Billy Martin article
5 months ago  ::  Dec 26, 2021 - 11:38PM #1
JudgeandYankees
Posts: 577

www.mlb.com/news/billy-martin-rangers-fi...



This is why I'm annoyed they kept Boone, some people say managers can only do so much but there were way too many winnable games in 2021 that we either blew or they just didn't didn't care enough to put the effort in to make a come back.



Billy Martin would never allow for the entire lineup to go into swing for the fence mode like they did this past season.

5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2021 - 10:19AM #2
1955nyyfan
Posts: 3,124

I understand that a lot of Yankee fans loved Billy Martin, I'm not one of them. He had a good baseball mind but too many other issues got in the way. He was an enigma for sure, many players loved him but those whom he picked to make an example of hated him. IMO, this article perfectly illustrates his immaturity, someone who was always looking for a confrontation chooses to take on the Owner of a team over what song will be played in the 7th inning. I can only guess he knew he was wearing out his welcome and wanted to speed up the process of getting fired. It was a move we saw over and over during his managerial career. I don't believe he could manage in today's game, not for a serious team trying to win, perhaps temporarily for a team trying to increase attendance. 

5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2021 - 1:23PM #3
newinn
Posts: 38,294

Dec 27, 2021 -- 10:19AM, 1955nyyfan wrote:


I understand that a lot of Yankee fans loved Billy Martin, I'm not one of them. He had a good baseball mind but too many other issues got in the way. He was an enigma for sure, many players loved him but those whom he picked to make an example of hated him. IMO, this article perfectly illustrates his immaturity, someone who was always looking for a confrontation chooses to take on the Owner of a team over what song will be played in the 7th inning. I can only guess he knew he was wearing out his welcome and wanted to speed up the process of getting fired. It was a move we saw over and over during his managerial career. I don't believe he could manage in today's game, not for a serious team trying to win, perhaps temporarily for a team trying to increase attendance. 




I didn't read the article but a read a great book on Martin. Couldn't agree more with your points '55. His personality flaws overrode is in game management skills. Never was a fan. Don't believe managers in any field can be long time successful constantly creating turmoil.

5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2021 - 1:57PM #4
Giancarlo
Posts: 804

Years ago Elias did a comparison by manager of their teams expected vs actual wins.   Billy Martin was one of the top managers in history going by that standard.

5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2021 - 3:26PM #5
Hobbs
Posts: 195

 Love him or hate him Billy Martin made the game enteresting and fun to watch. He was one of the smartest baseball minds I can remember. He was also a very flawed man with a self destructive personality. I don't know if it was personal issues early in his life or maybe it was just alcohol getting the better of him but he often engaged in alienating and aggressive behavior that pushed people away.


I think when he was traded to Kansas City in 1957 it had a major effect on him that he never fully recovered from. He was best friends with Micky Mantle and Whitey Ford and it was the incident at the Copacabana Club on Billy's 29th birthday that was the final straw for the Yankees. He and Mick were warned several times about their drinking and breaking curfew but after the brawl at the club the Yankees finally traded Billy.


 We all know his managerial career and history with the Boss. Times of great success but he could never seem to hang on to it. He would always sabotage it somehow.


 Billy died on Christmas night in 1989 when his car went off the icy road near his home. He was buried at Gate of Heaven Cemetery in Hawthorne New York about 150 feet from the grave of Babe Ruth.


He lived a very interesting life that would make for a good case study in a psychology class.


We miss you Billy. RIP.

5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2021 - 5:58PM #6
bruner4329
Posts: 4,482

Dec 27, 2021 -- 1:57PM, Giancarlo wrote:


Years ago Elias did a comparison by manager of their teams expected vs actual wins.   Billy Martin was one of the top managers in history going by that standard.




That is because he brought instant success to whereever he landed starting with Minnesota and Detroit.  In 76 he got the Yanks back in the WS and then in Oakland he got them to the playoffs. His problem as others have pointed out is he wore out his welcome.

5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2021 - 9:13PM #7
davis2
Posts: 19,213

Dec 27, 2021 -- 1:57PM, Giancarlo wrote:


Years ago Elias did a comparison by manager of their teams expected vs actual wins.   Billy Martin was one of the top managers in history going by that standard.



Probably true, but Billy never knew when to let up so a guy could relax. He only knew one way, but if he were wiser, could have been the best ever.

5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2021 - 10:16PM #8
JudgeandYankees
Posts: 577

Dec 27, 2021 -- 1:23PM, newinn wrote:


Dec 27, 2021 -- 10:19AM, 1955nyyfan wrote:


I understand that a lot of Yankee fans loved Billy Martin, I'm not one of them. He had a good baseball mind but too many other issues got in the way. He was an enigma for sure, many players loved him but those whom he picked to make an example of hated him. IMO, this article perfectly illustrates his immaturity, someone who was always looking for a confrontation chooses to take on the Owner of a team over what song will be played in the 7th inning. I can only guess he knew he was wearing out his welcome and wanted to speed up the process of getting fired. It was a move we saw over and over during his managerial career. I don't believe he could manage in today's game, not for a serious team trying to win, perhaps temporarily for a team trying to increase attendance. 




I didn't read the article but a read a great book on Martin. Couldn't agree more with your points '55. His personality flaws overrode is in game management skills. Never was a fan. Don't believe managers in any field can be long time successful constantly creating turmoil.




I was too young to ever actually see him manage but a guy with some fire in him is what the Yankees desparately need.

5 months ago  ::  Dec 28, 2021 - 9:39AM #9
bruner4329
Posts: 4,482

Dec 27, 2021 -- 10:16PM, JudgeandYankees wrote:


Dec 27, 2021 -- 1:23PM, newinn wrote:


Dec 27, 2021 -- 10:19AM, 1955nyyfan wrote:


I understand that a lot of Yankee fans loved Billy Martin, I'm not one of them. He had a good baseball mind but too many other issues got in the way. He was an enigma for sure, many players loved him but those whom he picked to make an example of hated him. IMO, this article perfectly illustrates his immaturity, someone who was always looking for a confrontation chooses to take on the Owner of a team over what song will be played in the 7th inning. I can only guess he knew he was wearing out his welcome and wanted to speed up the process of getting fired. It was a move we saw over and over during his managerial career. I don't believe he could manage in today's game, not for a serious team trying to win, perhaps temporarily for a team trying to increase attendance. 




I didn't read the article but a read a great book on Martin. Couldn't agree more with your points '55. His personality flaws overrode is in game management skills. Never was a fan. Don't believe managers in any field can be long time successful constantly creating turmoil.




He couldn't manage this team. They would have drove him to drink even more. They can't hit for average, run, bunt, make dumb mistakes on the base paths and they have a bunch of 4/5 inning starters. Not the Billy Martin type of team.


I was too young to ever actually see him manage but a guy with some fire in him is what the Yankees desparately need.





5 months ago  ::  Dec 29, 2021 - 2:20PM #10
BATS
Posts: 277

Dec 26, 2021 -- 11:38PM, JudgeandYankees wrote:


www.mlb.com/news/billy-martin-rangers-fi...



This is why I'm annoyed they kept Boone, some people say managers can only do so much but there were way too many winnable games in 2021 that we either blew or they just didn't didn't care enough to put the effort in to make a come back.



Billy Martin would never allow for the entire lineup to go into swing for the fence mode like they did this past season.




LOL....what?!?


THAT....I don't believe.  Plus, I don't see how you got the idea that "Billy Martin would never allow for the entire lineup to go into swing for the fence mode."  from reading that article. LOL....can you tell me where you base your statement on?


Look, the game has changed since the 70's and 80's, when Billy managed. I am a huge Billy fan. Since I started posting in this board, I have been advocates for the Yankees to re-hire Lou Piniella and Buck Showalter, because they were (in a way) Billy Martin disciples. However, because the game of baseball has changed, I don't know if Billy Martin could handle any of these players, who make at least half a million dollars. The players today, are different than that of yesterday. So much so, it's hard to tell if the Yankees of yesterday (i.e. Babe, Lou, Joe D, Reggie, etc...) could play today. The game has changed......alot. 


Everything Boone did, in terms of managing, was fine in 2021. Moves that Boone made, that didn't produce a positive result, was due to the fault of the player and not him. Bottom line is, you can't argue numbers (or analytics) because they are facts, which is something you fail to do here.


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